Id by search

[Lord Tom]

Here's an idea, apologies if it's been discussed before: if a player searches on a given turn, give the player credit for 1 turn towards pseudo-id of any items on the floor as if the player had them in the inventory.

This would include noting any artifacts with a single 's' command, or just by walking around over items while in search mode. With a few searches one could pseudo-id the item from the floor and have it squelch (or not).

The major use-case I have in mind is the end-game, when you're really just skimming for artifacts/splendid items. If there's a cleared greater vault with 100 pieces of treasure, I might have 1-2 slots free in the inventory so I'll run around grabbing items, letting them pseudo-id and possibly squelch, then id'ing any that don't squelch. I don't want to risk temporarily dropping a bunch of my inventory for fear I'll forget them, get teleported off-level, etc. But with id-by-search, when I search over an item:

1. if it's an artifact, I'll notice; if I'm squelching all non-artifacts it's gone if it isn't one
2. if it's not an artifact, I may choose to just id it, or can search a few more times until it pseudo-id's.

I think the idea makes some logical sense since if you're searching around one would think you'd notice if that long sword at your feet is Ringil. In addition, I think it simplifies this portion of gameplay without really changing the underlying logic of the Id system.

[Derakon]

Simpler might be to simply run pseudo on items on the floor just like items in inventory, and also auto-recognize artifacts when you walk on them. The artifacts thing does mean you're more likely to be able to grab an artifact from the middle of a fight before bailing (where previously it would have been lost because you wouldn't have known it was important), but IMO legendary, storied weapons and armor should be easily recognizable anyway.

[quarague]

I like the idea, I assume it would apply to all items in line of sight? Otherwise the added convenience mostly disappears. I think applying pseudo-id to the floor at all times makes it a little too easy, you get to know what the important items are even if you don't spend any turns trying to figure it out. I think the compromise, pseudo-id applies to the floor if you are searching but not otherwise, works best.
I guess it boils down to the question whether you should recognize an artifact immediately on sight or only after some careful analysis.

[Bogatyr]

Simpler might be to simply run pseudo on items on the floor just like items in inventory, and also auto-recognize artifacts when you walk on them. The artifacts thing does mean you're more likely to be able to grab an artifact from the middle of a fight before bailing (where previously it would have been lost because you wouldn't have known it was important), but IMO legendary, storied weapons and armor should be easily recognizable anyway.

Definitely want protections against "accidentally" IDing artifacts before you're ready to pick them up, thus losing them (without ever knowing!)

[Derakon]

Definitely want protections against "accidentally" IDing artifacts before you're ready to pick them up, thus losing them (without ever knowing!)

You'd get a message when you notice the artifact. If you can't spare a single turn to pick it up, that's your problem. Ditto if you miss the message -- but since the message would show when you first walk onto the tile (or when a monster drops the thing under your feet), I doubt that'd be an issue.

Re: tying this functionality to searching, I find that rather unintuitive, which is why I'd prefer it happen just as a matter of course.

[Bogatyr]

You'd get a message when you notice the artifact. If you can't spare a single turn to pick it up, that's your problem. Ditto if you miss the message -- but since the message would show when you first walk onto the tile (or when a monster drops the thing under your feet), I doubt that'd be an issue.

Re: tying this functionality to searching, I find that rather unintuitive, which is why I'd prefer it happen just as a matter of course.

I think it would be better to avoid having this problem altogether. Putting game-critical messages into the message stream where they weren't there before does not make the game more fun.

[Lord Tom]

Simpler might be to simply run pseudo on items on the floor just like items in inventory, and also auto-recognize artifacts when you walk on them. The artifacts thing does mean you're more likely to be able to grab an artifact from the middle of a fight before bailing (where previously it would have been lost because you wouldn't have known it was important), but IMO legendary, storied weapons and armor should be easily recognizable anyway.

I suggested making use of the search functionality rather than simply applying pseudo-id to any item you walk onto to avoid significantly changing the game difficulty related to pseudo-id'ing items. Linking floor-id to search makes you use 1+ turns to benefit from it, which similar to the current game makes it hard to sort/grab treasure during a pitched battle. It also avoids making it easier than it currently is to loot items by stealth (since using fewer turns would mean less chance of monsters waking up).

I can see an approach working where, similar to finding traps/doors there's a mini-id attempt based on perception when you just walk, but a more powerful id attempt if you search, based on search skill.

Finally, I'd envisioned this applying only to treasure you're actually standing over, though I suppose one could apply it to the immediate vicinity (radius 1) similar to finding traps/doors.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I like the idea, I assume it would apply to all items in line of sight? Otherwise the added convenience mostly disappears....

I don't think it makes sense for all items in line of sight to be pseudo-id'd, even if searching. However, here are two ideas:

1. Fizzix has a Rod of Identify in his personal angband that acts as a mass identify for all items in line of sight. That might work if the item is sufficiently rare.

2. Although not identifying, something I've asked about many times would greatly add to convenience, that the Object window distinguish between objects in line of sight and those @ is simply aware of, just like the Monster window does.