How do you play

[Timo Pietilä]

It depends how busy I am in real life. Sometimes my characters hibernate for months!!!

Same here. I might take very long breaks from playing. OTOH usually it takes about 20 hours of real time to finish one game unless I select some weird combo like my current dwarf mage. Those take a lot longer.

[Derakon]

Playing as a warrior really is so *boring*, as it seems? Several times I had created a warrior. But after the 15th cLevel I usually pressed |Q| uite.

If you're bored, dive. Pretty soon you'll be either no longer bored, or dead. This holds for all classes, mind. It's just most evident with warriors, who are so strong early on that they can basically skip the early game.

[Timo Pietilä]

If you're bored, dive. Pretty soon you'll be either no longer bored, or dead. This holds for all classes, mind. It's just most evident with warriors, who are so strong early on that they can basically skip the early game.

It starts to get interesting with warriors around 2500'. No detection (except staves of detect evil) and plenty of monsters that can kill you fast if you stumble upon them unaware.

[Angrist]

Thanks to your posts, I revised my attitude to the warriors. Until that moment, I thought that the warriors are only good to get acquainted with the game. Now I realized that they are excellent at the end of the game.

[Estie]

Thanks to your posts, I revised my attitude to the warriors. Until that moment, I thought that the warriors are only good to get acquainted with the game. Now I realized that they are excellent at the end of the game.

They are actually weak in the endgame (basically paladins without spells), but early and midgame is their forte, here they shine.

[Derakon]

They are actually weak in the endgame (basically paladins without spells), but early and midgame is their forte, here they shine.

They're significantly better than paladins at ranged combat, and get an extra blow/round (excepting with superheavy weapons), which means about 15% more damage, all else being equal. And since both spellcasting stats are dump stats for them, they can more heavily optimize their gear towards melee. Warriors in the endgame are no slouches. They're just more reliant on consumables.

[Angrist]

Now, I have experienced all of the classes. But the mage, I still think the most fun class. In particular because of the increased danger. And I love that spells always hit its target.
Hybrid classes (ranger, paladin) I do not like. Because they do not have anything outstanding at the beginning and can not cast spells with 0% fail. Ranger, though good ranged, they require good missile weapon and arrows scumming. And still can miss. I also did not like the ranger is pretty limited in choice of armor. Dressed in a great armor, my 25 cLevel Hobbit Ranger had 4 points of mana.
Rogue seems great in the middle of the game.
As for Warrior: all my warriors died because of too much self-confidence.

[Estie]

They're significantly better than paladins at ranged combat, and get an extra blow/round (excepting with superheavy weapons), which means about 15% more damage, all else being equal. And since both spellcasting stats are dump stats for them, they can more heavily optimize their gear towards melee. Warriors in the endgame are no slouches. They're just more reliant on consumables.

They USED to get 6 blows, but in current vanilla superheavy weapons is what everyone uses and the best of those gives 5,2. Not even the full 15% damage was as good as the paladin spellset, but thats fine, at least it was noticable. 5 -> 5,2 is not. Paladin melee = warrior melee, unless your stuck with a very subpar kit.

Archery....seriously ?

[Derakon]

Archery....seriously ?

Archery can be amazingly powerful with the right launcher, and warriors are the second-best at it in the game (after rangers, of course). Paladins are pretty lousy archers.

[Estie]

Archery can be amazingly powerful with the right launcher, and warriors are the second-best at it in the game (after rangers, of course). Paladins are pretty lousy archers.

*Sigh*

Lining up according to best, 2nd best etc is not enough, you also have to look at the amount of difference between the archers. Comparing an upgrade of a little +to hit with one of +2 shots (and a little +to hit on top) is misguiding.

I dont know how you play, but for non-rangers, prior to the big archery nerf I used launchers mostly to shoot fleeing monsters in the back. Post nerf I dont bother to carry ammo with mage/priests, warrior/rogue/paladin try to shoot fleeing monsters in the back but miss half of the time.
I know that warrior misses a little less often, but only because I read the forum; from my play, I wouldnt have noticed.
The other use is for the last 2 fights with accumulated ammo of the right type. I dont know how much difference the warrior´s increased to hit makes there; but all these uses are very situational.

I would trade my full 15% melee damage for the archery bonus any day. In fact, If anyone wants to make a mod where warrior melee damage doesnt get cut off at the top, I´d love to play that instead of vanilla. It has been annoying me ever since introduced.

[Timo Pietilä]

They USED to get 6 blows, but in current vanilla superheavy weapons is what everyone uses and the best of those gives 5,2.

Archery....seriously ?

They still get 6 with everything else than MoD and SoS.

Archery is good enough to use even with mage. Extra shot HXbow or good Buckland sling makes more damage / turn than manastorm with right ammo. If you don't use it with warrior you are missing a lot of potential.

[Zikke]

I think warriors should go back to having a higher strikes/turn than any other class to make up for their lack of spells and dependence on consumables/rods. The only thing I have to look forward to at end-game for them is big hits. It's like playing a self-restricted no-spell paladin.

[Timo Pietilä]

I think warriors should go back to having a higher strikes/turn than any other class to make up for their lack of spells and dependence on consumables/rods.

Go back? As in before fractional blows? They got 5 with MoD back then.

[Estie]

They still get 6 with everything else than MoD and SoS.

Archery is good enough to use even with mage. Extra shot HXbow or good Buckland sling makes more damage / turn than manastorm with right ammo. If you don't use it with warrior you are missing a lot of potential.

The fact that they get 6 blows prior to superheavy weapons is as it should be: midgame warriors and those rare endgame warriors that for whatever reason end up with a lighter weapon are fine.

I maintain: neither the fraction of a blow a warrior gets over paladin with the typical endgame weapon nor the extra to hit with archery are of any significance. The endgame warrior plays like a paladin without spells.

As for the potential of archery:

Early game, archery is *great*, there are neither weight nor space issues; pretty much everyone uses it (mage + priest stop if/when equipping ring of escaping).

For the last 2 fights, archery is also *great*: 2 slots of ammo carefully collected (and housed) during the game can be wasted on the bosses with no thoughts past the kill.

Midgame, archery takes a side role for various reasons:
Space: I dont want to devote more than 1 slot to the quiver.
Ammo preservation: killing anything with arrows is bound to result in lost ammo.
Handling: it is very clumsy and time- and click-consuming to use archery compared to melee or spells.

So I might be in a situtuation where I can kill <#ran unique> with archery, but not with my primary method of attack, why would I do that ? I dont bother, wait till I am stronger and leave my supply of ammo intact for emergencies.

I ask: WHY for heavens sake does warrior get 6 blows with everything but the best weapons ?

[Zikke]

Okay not go back. But warriors should have more weapon damage per turn than anybody else. It's all they have going for them. What's what I meant.