Trashed a wonderful thing.

[Zxerja]

I have been playing Angband since the early 90's and I find any version beyond 2.8.3 to be unplayable. I have just compiled an OS X version of 2.8.3 so I can keep playing the best video game ever created. I never realized how screwed up the game has become. Recently my trusty dedicated Angband power-mac started crashing frequently and I was shocked at the changes. SHOCKED.

I understand that who-ever thought it would be a good idea to mess with the game in such drastic ways could not possibly have known any better, but this is no excuse.

Understand this: you folks are playing a variant. A much easier one at that, it's like Angband for kids.

I give the present incarnation 5 black marks, DEMERITS.

[Patashu]

Would you like to elaborate?

[debo]

Cool story bro. I'll go gargle some glass for you.

Ps you might like oangband or faangband -- check the variants page.

[Derakon]

Feel free to be specific. Angband is never going to not change, but there have been plenty of changes that got rolled back after common consensus determined they were bad ideas. Put another way, your voice can make a difference, if enough people agree with you.

[Zikke]

This is a strangely refreshing departure from the uncannily amicable nature of these forums.

I mean, RAGE!

[MattB]

Nobody minds if you don't like 3.5.0 - that's why 2.8.3 is still available for download. Go play. Enjoy!

[Nick]

2.8.3? Seriously?

The canonical version is 2.6.1, before that Harrison bastard came in and ruined it FOREVER

[MattB]

2.8.3? Seriously?

The canonical version is 2.6.1, before that Harrison bastard came in and ruined it FOREVER

There used to be cannons? And Harrison took them out after 2.6.1?
No wonder Debo's so cross.

[debo]

There used to be cannons? And Harrison took them out after 2.6.1?
No wonder Debo's so cross.

Yes it's the worst. Zangband got the watered-down version of Angband's true vision, the rest was ruined.

[Mondkalb]

And I thought frog knows was the real McCoy.

[DeusIrae]

Is there a canonical rap on exactly how Angband has been dumbed down/ruined/made too easy? I've only played 3.5.0 and while I'd agree that it's not really that hard of a game, I don't have a great sense of in what way that was different before. To my mind, there are two major things I'd point to as making Angband fairly easy: a) the common availability of escapes (phase door, teleport, teleport other), and b) the comparative absence of undocumented stuff that requires lots of pointless trial and error or out of game spoiling before you can play well (e.g. Elbereth in Nethack, the various invisible timers and such in ADOM).

Were there changes over the years that impacted one or both of those things, and therefore made the game harder? Most of the things I know about don't seem like they'd really go to difficulty in this way. Getting rid of CHA removes a bit of pointless complexity and a dump stat. I believe there are more vaults now than there used to be, and while that's sort of an increased risk/increased reward situation, given all the escapes available I'd be willing to believe they make things easier on net. I think you used to be able to recharge staves with 100% reliability by selling and rebuying them, so if anything that would have made things easier.

The thing that might go in this category would be the various changes to make ID by use a viable option (getting rid of gotchas like Potions of Death, toning down curses). But that mostly seems like it's removing things that make the game difficult to learn, rather than making it difficult to play -- magical ID is so easy to come by that forgoing ID by use doesn't really reduce your effectiveness. It's just that you'd need to lose a couple of characters before learning that you should never drink unID'd potions or try on unID'd equipment (which, see my point b) above -- I can see how opinions would differ, but personally I don't find increased challenge through barriers to entry all that compelling). Was magical ID rarer in early versions, such that not being able to ID by use was actually an increased challenge, rather than just enforcing a particular playstyle? Or were there other changes I don't know about that actually were the thing that made early versions harder?

[Derakon]

The most notable changes compared to 2.8.3, off the top of my head:

* Teleport Other is now a bolt, instead of a beam.
* Destruction now removes artifacts.
* Enchantment scrolls no longer sold in the town.
* Removal of cursed equipment and many bad potions (including e.g. Potions of Death)
* Distributions of items and monsters have been significantly tweaked
* Stat gain is faster (accelerated gains once you get above 18)
* Addition of no-selling option (thus in 2.8.3 you have to lug gear back to town for money if you want to buy expensive stuff like stat potions)
* Monster summons now appear around the summoner instead of the player (among other things, this removes the "Sea of Runes" tactic for risk-free fighting of Morgoth)
* Mage damage spells are much more viable (they used to have lousy damage-to-mana ratios, and Raal's was the last spellbook)
* Rangers have had their melee and spellcasting nerfed, but gain extra shots to compensate

[HallucinationMushroom]

Wow, this is super handy. I fired up 2.8.3 about two days ago just to remember what the first version I played looked like. As long as Angband has color I think will still play it.

[Djabanete]

Surprised to hear you say that, HM. Color ruined the game for me.

[Timo Pietilä]

And I thought frog knows was the real McCoy.

I actually hope that someone makes a frog-knows "variant" with a more modern UI. It was so different than current game. Keep the gameplay, update the UI to include keymaps, inscriptions and stuff like that.

I have fired up frog-know for time to time, but my patience of playing it is not what it used to be and I quit because of frustration of bad UI more than game itself.