Resistance damage reduction

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

Can someone point me to a table/info on how much of a reduction to damage you receive from various resistances?

I think the basics and poison give you 2/3 reduction (single source), or 8/9 reduction (permanent + temporary source).

How about the others?

[fizzix]

Can someone point me to a table/info on how much of a reduction to damage you receive from various resistances?

I think the basics and poison give you 2/3 reduction (single source), or 8/9 reduction (permanent + temporary source).

How about the others?

They vary in a non-intuitive, opaque manner, and is something that I've been lobbying to have changed for a while.

For shard, nexus, nether, chaos, disenchant. the resisted value is equal to

6/(6 + randint(1,6)) so anywhere from 1/7 resist to 1/2

for sound it is

5/(6 + randint(1,6)) so sound is a little better.

for light and dark it's

4/(6 + randint(1,6)) so they're even better yet.

If we wanted a random value, I still think we could accomodate it without such an asinine formula.

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

They vary in a non-intuitive, opaque manner, and is something that I've been lobbying to have changed for a while.

For shard, nexus, nether, chaos, disenchant. the resisted value is equal to

6/(6 + randint(1,6)) so anywhere from 1/7 resist to 1/2

for sound it is

5/(6 + randint(1,6)) so sound is a little better.

for light and dark it's

4/(6 + randint(1,6)) so they're even better yet.

If we wanted a random value, I still think we could accomodate it without such an asinine formula.

Let me confirm:
I get hit by a breath attack of 700, which I resist.

If the attack was shard, nexus, nether, chaos, disenchant: my damage is 350-600.

If the attack was sound: my damage is 292-500.

If the attack was light or dark: my damage is 233-400.

[Nick]

Let me confirm:
I get hit by a breath attack of 700, which I resist.

If the attack was shard, nexus, nether, chaos, disenchant: my damage is 350-600.

If the attack was sound: my damage is 292-500.

If the attack was light or dark: my damage is 233-400.

This would be correct, except that the damage is also capped - with different caps for each element, and the resistance calculated after the cap is applied. So for nexus, light and dark, the cap is 400, so the damage is 200-343 for nexus, 133-228 for light and dark. And so on.

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

Table of breath attacks.

This would be correct, except that the damage is also capped - with different caps for each element, and the resistance calculated after the cap is applied. So for nexus, light and dark, the cap is 400, so the damage is 200-343 for nexus, 133-228 for light and dark. And so on.

Ok: I've thrown this info together:

Fire/Cold/Lightning/Acid/Poison/Time/Gravity: damage = 1/3rd of the health of the monster
other damage types: damage = 1/6th of the health of the monster

caps:
F/C/L/A : 1600
Poison: 800
Nether: 550
Sound/chaos/disenchantment/shards: 500
Nexus/light/darkness: 400
Inertia/gravity/force: 200
time/plasma: 150

Notes:
(1) I cannot find a monster that breathes darkness for the maximum amount. However The Phoenix caps the light breath at 400. Tselakus the Dreadlord can invoke a darkness storm for 440 damage (but this isn't a breath).
(2) The aether vortex shows us clearly which damage types do 1/3rd the health of the monster, and which do 1/6th. In particular Time and Gravity unexpectedly do 1/3rd the health of the monster.
(3) Other information on caps for the most part taken from Ancient Dragons/Wyrms or Zepher Hounds

[fizzix]

(2) The aether vortex shows us clearly which damage types do 1/3rd the health of the monster, and which do 1/6th. In particular Time and Gravity unexpectedly do 1/3rd the health of the monster.

I should just point out that one of the very small changes I made in my custom version was to drop time and gravity to 1/6 just like every other breath. They're dangerous enough at half damage, I don't know why they need to be buffed in that way too. It doesn't make sense.

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

I should just point out that one of the very small changes I made in my custom version was to drop time and gravity to 1/6 just like every other breath. They're dangerous enough at half damage, I don't know why they need to be buffed in that way too. It doesn't make sense.

I hate time breathers . The one saving grace is that both have low damage caps.

This table lists maximum resisted damage from breaths:

caps resisted (double resisted in brackets):
F/C/L/A : 533 (177)
Poison: 266 (88)
Nether: 471
Chaos/disenchantment/shards: 428
Sound: 357
Nexus: 342
Light/darkness: 228

Notes:
(1) In the case where resistance chops off a semi-random amount, the worst-case scenario is listed.
(2) Values assume that angband rounds down all resisted damages to nearest integer.

[debo]

It doesn't make sense.

You want angband to make sense

[Timo Pietilä]

caps resisted (double resisted in brackets):

Chaos/disenchantment/shards: 428
Sound: 357
Nexus: 342
Light/darkness: 228

Caps for unresisted sound is same as chaos/disenchantment/shard and unresisted Nexus is same as dark and light. (list-mon-spells.h)

Nether = 550 cap HP/6, Cha/Dis/Sha/Sou = 500 cap HP/6 and Nxs/Drk/Lgt = 400 cap HP/6. Unresisted time and gravity have HP/3, but caps are much lower.

I don't know why sound does less damage than four other balance elements (law + chaos = balance). IIRC it didn't used to (except that chaos had 600 cap in old times).

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

Caps for unresisted sound is same as chaos/disenchantment/shard and unresisted Nexus is same as dark and light. (list-mon-spells.h)

Nether = 550 cap HP/6, Cha/Dis/Sha/Sou = 500 cap HP/6 and Nxs/Drk/Lgt = 400 cap HP/6. Unresisted time and gravity have HP/3, but caps are much lower.

I don't know why sound does less damage than four other balance elements (law + chaos = balance). IIRC it didn't used to (except that chaos had 600 cap in old times).

Sure, but the amount resisted is different. (see Fizzix's post above)

[Timo Pietilä]

Sure, but the amount resisted is different. (see Fizzix's post above)

That's my point. I don't know why that has been done for sound. Is that beacuse it stuns? But resistance to sound prevents that, so no much point for reducing damage for that reason.

[jford_2505@hotmail.com]

That's my point. I don't know why that has been done for sound. Is that beacuse it stuns? But resistance to sound prevents that, so no much point for reducing damage for that reason.

It seems unnecessarily complicated and convoluted. Should be something simple like: each higher resist lops of a specific amount of damage: say 1/3. So nether would be like 366 damage cap resisted, sound + balance: 333, light/dark/nexus: 266. You could work it out easily without having to rely on tables/calculate on the fly. With no double resist, these breaths would still be the scary ones.

[fizzix]

That's my point. I don't know why that has been done for sound. Is that beacuse it stuns? But resistance to sound prevents that, so no much point for reducing damage for that reason.

It's hard to educe logic from all this. Many of these decisions are ancient and were made in a game that is very different, both in the monster list and in the artifact/ego list (not to mention stuff like pstun) than the current game. So even if there was a sound reason (pun intended) for this originally, I'm not sure it applies now. What is true is that damage reduction is needlessly opaque. If we really want a randomized value (for whatever reason) we should list the resist as blocking 15-40% of damage, or whatever.

[Nick]

It's hard to educe logic from all this. Many of these decisions are ancient and were made in a game that is very different, both in the monster list and in the artifact/ego list (not to mention stuff like pstun) than the current game. So even if there was a sound reason (pun intended) for this originally, I'm not sure it applies now. What is true is that damage reduction is needlessly opaque. If we really want a randomized value (for whatever reason) we should list the resist as blocking 15-40% of damage, or whatever.

I tend to agree with all of this; after the restructure, I think damage reduction should be revisited (no pun intended).

[Tibarius]

Some quick thoughts on Resistances from my Point of view.

Why do i put on resistances (experience mainly as mage)?
1. To prevent a single-move death caused by over-damage.
2. rNether to prevent loosing XP, even tho in the last game i have tons of unused restore life potions left
3. rChaos to prevent hallucination, which i find deadly in the lower Levels
4. rNexus to prevent teleportation, which i find dangerously if you cannot teleport Level

The different reductions, with different caps is hard to remember. And why does the health of the Monster Play a role? Can a red Dragon breath less hot fire just because he already lost his left foot???

Maybe make resistances work for damage reduction only and Keep it simple:
rAcid/Elec/Fire/Cold/Pois reduces damage taken by 2/3
rLight/Dark/Sound/Nexus/Nether/Chaos/Disenchant reduce by 1/3

If the majority prefers random elements make it:
Basics 1/2 to 2/3 reduction
higher 1/3 to 1/2 reduction

Make breath damage unlinked to Monster health, so that the Monster recal Information Shows the Maximum damage THIS Monster you are looking at can do. (So that the Player in front of the Screen knows if a single move kill from this breath is possible.)

Secondary effects:
teleport from Nexus or gravity, loose xp from nether, hallucination from chaos
Make it like blindness, confusion, stun and fear. Give it a protection.

pLife = protection Life Force = HLife = reduced or no xp loss
pTele = protection from Teleportation = no more teleports (neither teleport-to or teleport away, and no own teleport)
pHalc = protection from Hallucinations
pSlow = protection from Slowness = no Speed penalties possible