Loving 3.5.0

[fizzix]

Why would they want to? Why would anybody jump into this kind of thread when people are ready to jump on your case because you feel like something needs changed?

I can't speak for everyone, but I tried to explain in as polite language as possible why I don't think it's a problem at all, and why even if it was a problem, I don't think it's a big enough one to merit the effort required to change it.

The vast majority of the gameplay changes I've implemented have come directly from suggestions on this forum. Just because I"m not receptive to this idea does not mean I won't be receptive to others!

[Malak Darkhunter]

I can't speak for everyone, but I tried to explain in as polite language as possible why I don't think it's a problem at all, and why even if it was a problem, I don't think it's a big enough one to merit the effort required to change it.

The vast majority of the gameplay changes I've implemented have come directly from suggestions on this forum. Just because I"m not receptive to this idea does not mean I won't be receptive to others!

Agreed, and Fizzix I have absoulutely no problem with you what so ever and I appreciate what you have tried to do for the game, I was explaining my point of view and then I started getting attitude from other people, so yeah anybody would at that point get defensive.

[Nick]

Being an equal opportunity kind of maintainer, I plan to ruin Angband so that everyone hates it.

[MattB]

Being an equal opportunity kind of maintainer, I plan to ruin Angband so that everyone hates it.

A long time ago, an extremely wise man once said:

One thing to remember is that vanilla is probably the first *band most new players encounter.

Consider ice cream. My favourite is caramel, but I prefer vanilla to chocolate or strawberry (and banana is an abomination). If someone was trying ice cream for the first time, vanilla would probably give them the best idea of whether they liked it at all. If you make vanilla too like chocolate (say by introducing a wilderness), then people might be be put off by the strong flavour instead of appreciating the combination of sweetness, creaminess and coldness which is the essential quality of ice cream. So vanilla should be the quintessential flavour.

[Nick]

That's just dumb. Let's all hope that that moron never gets to be in charge.

[debo]

Being an equal opportunity kind of maintainer, I plan to ruin Angband so that everyone hates it.

Are you sure you're not a DCSS dev?

[krazyhades]

Hey DCSS has some great auto-explore and find-item-by-name-and-move-to-it capabilities. Also, its tile system is so good as to be superior to the ascii interface.

[debo]

Hey DCSS has some great auto-explore and find-item-by-name-and-move-to-it capabilities. Also, its tile system is so good as to be superior to the ascii interface.

Bad joke. (I personally love the game.)

[MattB]

That's just dumb. Let's all hope that that moron never gets to be in charge.

Absolutely!

[Malak Darkhunter]

Being an equal opportunity kind of maintainer, I plan to ruin Angband so that everyone hates it.

I am used to playing variants honestly like FA,O,and Sang, sometimes I play older versions of Angband like Frog-knows or 2.7.8-2.8.2 era simply because of the challenge, I don't feel like modern V is much of a challenge, It has a really nice interface even for x11 which I favour more than the other interfaces, but to be honest it feels like a push-over. I am finding tons of cure serious, cure critical wounds potions in abundance, it dosen't matter if I run into grouped uniques(I like grouped uniques, by the way, very nice idea), the dungeon gives enough to the player to make surviving pretty easy. Angband needs hidden dangers, just like the surprise I got playing FA a while back and I died to Glaurung, (never dreamed that he would breathe poison!). If anybody can provide a level of hidden danger and nasty surprises to the game it is you Nick.
That is my 2 cents worth, I might be in the minority that feels the game is to easy, but there it is anyway.And I'm done.

[fizzix]

If anybody can provide a level of hidden danger and nasty surprises to the game it is you Nick.
That is my 2 cents worth, I might be in the minority that feels the game is to easy, but there it is anyway.And I'm done.

The game is too easy comment comes up a lot, and it's a hard one to gauge. One of the problems with "making the game harder" is that angband allows you to scum infinitely. There's no hunger clock and the levels are unlimited. This is a design choice. For example, with regard to the potion drop rates, you were always able to go back and scum town for healing potions. You still can. The only change that increasing the drops did was make town scumming unnecessary. This isn't really a difficulty change, it's a "modernization" change. It tries to smooth the gameplay experience and cut out boring grindy things that serve no purpose except to be off-putting. If the game expects you to need 2 CCW a level, it should supply them at that rate.

I think the general idea of a "choose your own pace" is a good one for new players, it really allows someone to get their feet wet and explore the dungeon. It's why I chose angband over the other roguelikes around. However, after you've won a few times, it feels too easy, so you have to set different challenges for yourself. The onus is on you to make the game challenging. Play forced descent + no stores for example, you might find it an interesting game. Part of the goal I have tried to pursue in balance changes is to make sure the default game is suited to the beginner, but make sure that there are new challenges for veteran players to try. Hopefully, we can work on that more in the future.

The easiest versions of angband were probably in the 3.1-3.3 range. In these versions, I would find myself unable to dive fast enough to keep up with the power curve. I was always overpowered! That's not true in 3.4, there's always a stretch where I'm underpowered and have to play very carefully and teeter on the edge of death.

Also its' really hard to compare difficulty of older versions. They had a different mindset to the gameplay, and a lot of UI issues. Just having something like a monster subwindow is significant in making the game easier.

[Maddz]

I have to say have been playing 3.5 since the release and my comments are:

Love the new character options
Hate no regain stat potions (and the juggle stat potions - they're completely pointless IMO)

Love not needing scrolls of *identify*
Hate inventory and house slots being capped at 40

Love 'basic' consumables like standard books being always available
Hate non-contiguous house and store slots; what's the point when your inventory slots are contiguous???

What I'd like to see:

Less spell books with no unintelligible slots - what's the point of a book where you can only read 2 out of 6 slots (Tenser's Transformations)? I get there's some thematic unity to the various books, but you've got 57 legible spells in 63 slots over 9 books which range from 5 to 9 slots apiece.

A bigger home. This is what I really liked about Hengband - you had 4 or 5 pages (if not more - it's been a while and I can't be bothered to fire up the PC to check - it died on the Mac with Mountain Lion) to your home so you weren't making hard choices all the time about what to keep or sell. Heck, you could make it a purchasable thing - add another room for a few million gp. After a while, gold is meaningless in the game anyway - give us something useful to spend it on.

Equipment enchantments. Hengband had the neat idea of smithies etc being able to enhance equipment to a max of +10 (you got +1 every 5 levels). If you wanted more, you had to buy enhancement scrolls. Again, something useful to spend gold on - you could vary the cost according to the level on there already and whether the item is ego or unique or not.

Spell effects that vary according to your level. So, when you first learn a spell, you get a basic spell. As you increase your level, your spell increases in power; for example, Detect Monsters starts by detecting visible monsters within, say, 50 spaces of your character. Each level you gain after first learning the spell adds another 5 spaces to the range. Once you've added a few levels, the spell starts detecting invisible monsters as well... Offensive spells increase damage and intensity - start with a bolt, move up to a beam and add range. Defensive spells like resists increase amount resisted and duration.

Automatic centring of the map when you come to a halt. It's the one thing that really bugs me - if you stop and look around you should be able to see everything that's in your line of sight - but you can't, because it's off-screen. For moving along corridors it make some sense, but for rooms it doesn't. When you enter a room, you should be able to see all of it at once (provided it's lit of course), not only see half of because the other half is off-screen.

[fizzix]

Hate no regain stat potions (and the juggle stat potions - they're completely pointless IMO)

I was skeptical about this at first, but I actually really like the recharge on level up. The big problem with the old way was it slowed down the early game, because stat drains early were a pain. Now it only gives a danger in the late game.

Hate non-contiguous house and store slots; what's the point when your inventory slots are contiguous???

What do you mean by non-contiguous?

Less spell books with no unintelligible slots - what's the point of a book where you can only read 2 out of 6 slots (Tenser's Transformations)? I get there's some thematic unity to the various books, but you've got 57 legible spells in 63 slots over 9 books which range from 5 to 9 slots apiece.

I agree on this. I think a spells overhaul is long due.

A bigger home. This is what I really liked about Hengband - you had 4 or 5 pages (if not more - it's been a while and I can't be bothered to fire up the PC to check - it died on the Mac with Mountain Lion) to your home so you weren't making hard choices all the time about what to keep or sell. Heck, you could make it a purchasable thing - add another room for a few million gp. After a while, gold is meaningless in the game anyway - give us something useful to spend it on.

Increasing the home size is a one line change. Unfortunately the display is buggy. My hope is that this becomes another thing we can set in params, so players can alter it as they like.

Spell effects that vary according to your level. So, when you first learn a spell, you get a basic spell. As you increase your level, your spell increases in power; for example, Detect Monsters starts by detecting visible monsters within, say, 50 spaces of your character. Each level you gain after first learning the spell adds another 5 spaces to the range. Once you've added a few levels, the spell starts detecting invisible monsters as well... Offensive spells increase damage and intensity - start with a bolt, move up to a beam and add range. Defensive spells like resists increase amount resisted and duration.

This already happens with damage and duration increases. But I agree that we haven't explored the full range.

Automatic centring of the map when you come to a halt. It's the one thing that really bugs me - if you stop and look around you should be able to see everything that's in your line of sight - but you can't, because it's off-screen. For moving along corridors it make some sense, but for rooms it doesn't. When you enter a room, you should be able to see all of it at once (provided it's lit of course), not only see half of because the other half is off-screen.

You can just use always center. I realize it's not quite what you want, but I'm not sure the effort for a half measure is worth it. I think "center map" is a one key command anyway.

[Nick]

I am used to playing variants honestly like FA,O,and Sang, sometimes I play older versions of Angband like Frog-knows or 2.7.8-2.8.2 era simply because of the challenge, I don't feel like modern V is much of a challenge

I've frequently had this feeling when I come back to V from O/FA - and yet it doesn't seem to translate into wins...

[Derakon]

Incidentally, Glaurung breathes poison in Vanilla too, so watch out.