[3.5-dev] Excellent feeling?

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  • PowerWyrm
    Prophet
    • Apr 2008
    • 2986

    [3.5-dev] Excellent feeling?

    I've cleared a level with "excellent feeling" without finding anything interesting. The only thing that could have caused the feeling is a Potion Mimic mimicking a potion of experience. They should not count towards the level feeling no?
    PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!
  • takkaria
    Veteran
    • Apr 2007
    • 1951

    #2
    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
    I've cleared a level with "excellent feeling" without finding anything interesting. The only thing that could have caused the feeling is a Potion Mimic mimicking a potion of experience. They should not count towards the level feeling no?
    Hmm. I think it does, but I don't have a clear sense of whether it should or not.
    takkaria whispers something about options. -more-

    Comment

    • Magnate
      Angband Devteam member
      • May 2007
      • 5110

      #3
      Interesting catch. I suspect it does - it has to have an entry in the object list in order to be treated like an object for detection etc. The level feeling calculator has no idea it's not a real object.

      I think I like that :-)
      "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

      Comment

      • MattB
        Veteran
        • Mar 2013
        • 1214

        #4
        Originally posted by Magnate
        Interesting catch. I suspect it does - it has to have an entry in the object list in order to be treated like an object for detection etc. The level feeling calculator has no idea it's not a real object.

        I think I like that :-)
        The problem occurs when you've squelched the item in question.
        In that case, I believe, the monster is 'invisible' until you run into it.
        I think that's wrong because it's a case of UI affecting the game mechanics.
        It would be a bit like if squelching an item on the floor (or changing your macros etc. etc.) took up a turn for your @.
        To me, at least, the two actions are on different meta-levels. On the one hand you've got your little maurauding @ lopping the heads off snagas, and on the other you've got me sat in a darkened room at 2am drinking wine. If the UI level effects the @-level then the illusion gets shattered.

        Or maybe it's just me...

        Comment

        • takkaria
          Veteran
          • Apr 2007
          • 1951

          #5
          Originally posted by MattB
          The problem occurs when you've squelched the item in question.
          In that case, I believe, the monster is 'invisible' until you run into it.
          I think that's wrong because it's a case of UI affecting the game mechanics.
          It would be a bit like if squelching an item on the floor (or changing your macros etc. etc.) took up a turn for your @.
          To me, at least, the two actions are on different meta-levels. On the one hand you've got your little maurauding @ lopping the heads off snagas, and on the other you've got me sat in a darkened room at 2am drinking wine. If the UI level effects the @-level then the illusion gets shattered.

          Or maybe it's just me...
          I don't see how it affects the game mechanics - you've made a UI choice to hide certain things and that's all the game is doing. Maybe think of it in-character as stuff you just wouldn't look twice at because you know it won't be of use to you. If one of them turned out to be a mimic, it would be a big surprise since you would barely have registered its existence until attacked.

          I think the game mechanic would be leaking through to the UI level if mimics were always visible regardless of squelch settings. It's a big "WARNING I'M A MIMIC" sign that you wouldn't get if you weren't using squelch.
          takkaria whispers something about options. -more-

          Comment

          • Derakon
            Prophet
            • Dec 2009
            • 9022

            #6
            As I understand it, mimics tend to favor mimicking high-value items anyway, so they're unlikely to be squelched by the player. Even in the late-game, potions of stat gain remain unsquelched in case you need stat restore, and potions of Healing are always useful. So I'm disinclined to be too worried about mimics mimicking squelched items and therefore being invisible.

            Comment

            • MattB
              Veteran
              • Mar 2013
              • 1214

              #7
              Originally posted by takkaria
              Maybe think of it in-character as stuff you just wouldn't look twice at because you know it won't be of use to you. If one of them turned out to be a mimic, it would be a big surprise since you would barely have registered its existence until attacked.
              A good point, that.
              I like it - You've convinced me!

              Comment

              • MattB
                Veteran
                • Mar 2013
                • 1214

                #8
                Originally posted by Derakon
                As I understand it, mimics tend to favor mimicking high-value items anyway, so they're unlikely to be squelched by the player. Even in the late-game, potions of stat gain remain unsquelched in case you need stat restore, and potions of Healing are always useful.
                It's definitely happened to me, maybe potions of restore mana as a warrior?

                Comment

                • PowerWyrm
                  Prophet
                  • Apr 2008
                  • 2986

                  #9
                  Originally posted by MattB
                  It's definitely happened to me, maybe potions of restore mana as a warrior?
                  This happened to me with a mage and potions of speed squelched.
                  PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

                  Comment

                  • MattB
                    Veteran
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 1214

                    #10
                    Originally posted by PowerWyrm
                    This happened to me with a mage and potions of speed squelched.
                    Is there maybe an argument for mimics to only mimic things that would only be squelched by a total lunatic?
                    e.g. acquirement, *acquirement*, healing, *healing*, life, RoSpeed...

                    Comment

                    • Derakon
                      Prophet
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 9022

                      #11
                      No, because then finding one of those items would be a big clue that you saw a mimic.

                      As it is, in the late-game unidentified flavors are almost always mimics -- you're more likely to learn the flavor of a Ring of Speed by killing a ring mimic than by finding an actual ring. I don't think that we necessarily want to make that even more extreme.

                      Comment

                      • donalde
                        Apprentice
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 86

                        #12
                        It would be nasty to see 'a plain gold ring' and it turns out to be ring mimic

                        Comment

                        • MattB
                          Veteran
                          • Mar 2013
                          • 1214

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Derakon
                          No, because then finding one of those items would be a big clue that you saw a mimic.

                          As it is, in the late-game unidentified flavors are almost always mimics -- you're more likely to learn the flavor of a Ring of Speed by killing a ring mimic than by finding an actual ring. I don't think that we necessarily want to make that even more extreme.
                          Fair enough, just an idea.
                          Although maybe removing a couple of the more eminently squelchable ones of the list might make sense? (e.g. potions of restore mana)

                          Comment

                          • MattB
                            Veteran
                            • Mar 2013
                            • 1214

                            #14
                            Originally posted by donalde
                            It would be nasty to see 'a plain gold ring' and it turns out to be ring mimic
                            You find a plain gold ring. It turns out to be a plain gold ring.

                            Comment

                            • damerell
                              Rookie
                              • Nov 2012
                              • 10

                              #15
                              Originally posted by MattB
                              Although maybe removing a couple of the more eminently squelchable ones of the list might make sense? (e.g. potions of restore mana)
                              With Gorging going in 3.5 (last I checked) an "automatically consume if appropriate & no monsters in sight" option might be interesting, so you'd just hoover up CLW when wounded rather than squelching them. :-/

                              Comment

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