[3.5-dev] Excellent feeling?

[PowerWyrm]

I've cleared a level with "excellent feeling" without finding anything interesting. The only thing that could have caused the feeling is a Potion Mimic mimicking a potion of experience. They should not count towards the level feeling no?

[takkaria]

I've cleared a level with "excellent feeling" without finding anything interesting. The only thing that could have caused the feeling is a Potion Mimic mimicking a potion of experience. They should not count towards the level feeling no?

Hmm. I think it does, but I don't have a clear sense of whether it should or not.

[Magnate]

Interesting catch. I suspect it does - it has to have an entry in the object list in order to be treated like an object for detection etc. The level feeling calculator has no idea it's not a real object.

I think I like that :-)

[MattB]

Interesting catch. I suspect it does - it has to have an entry in the object list in order to be treated like an object for detection etc. The level feeling calculator has no idea it's not a real object.

I think I like that :-)

The problem occurs when you've squelched the item in question.
In that case, I believe, the monster is 'invisible' until you run into it.
I think that's wrong because it's a case of UI affecting the game mechanics.
It would be a bit like if squelching an item on the floor (or changing your macros etc. etc.) took up a turn for your @.
To me, at least, the two actions are on different meta-levels. On the one hand you've got your little maurauding @ lopping the heads off snagas, and on the other you've got me sat in a darkened room at 2am drinking wine. If the UI level effects the @-level then the illusion gets shattered.

Or maybe it's just me...

[takkaria]

The problem occurs when you've squelched the item in question.
In that case, I believe, the monster is 'invisible' until you run into it.
I think that's wrong because it's a case of UI affecting the game mechanics.
It would be a bit like if squelching an item on the floor (or changing your macros etc. etc.) took up a turn for your @.
To me, at least, the two actions are on different meta-levels. On the one hand you've got your little maurauding @ lopping the heads off snagas, and on the other you've got me sat in a darkened room at 2am drinking wine. If the UI level effects the @-level then the illusion gets shattered.

Or maybe it's just me...

I don't see how it affects the game mechanics - you've made a UI choice to hide certain things and that's all the game is doing. Maybe think of it in-character as stuff you just wouldn't look twice at because you know it won't be of use to you. If one of them turned out to be a mimic, it would be a big surprise since you would barely have registered its existence until attacked.

I think the game mechanic would be leaking through to the UI level if mimics were always visible regardless of squelch settings. It's a big "WARNING I'M A MIMIC" sign that you wouldn't get if you weren't using squelch.

[Derakon]

As I understand it, mimics tend to favor mimicking high-value items anyway, so they're unlikely to be squelched by the player. Even in the late-game, potions of stat gain remain unsquelched in case you need stat restore, and potions of Healing are always useful. So I'm disinclined to be too worried about mimics mimicking squelched items and therefore being invisible.

[MattB]

Maybe think of it in-character as stuff you just wouldn't look twice at because you know it won't be of use to you. If one of them turned out to be a mimic, it would be a big surprise since you would barely have registered its existence until attacked.

A good point, that.
I like it - You've convinced me!

[MattB]

As I understand it, mimics tend to favor mimicking high-value items anyway, so they're unlikely to be squelched by the player. Even in the late-game, potions of stat gain remain unsquelched in case you need stat restore, and potions of Healing are always useful.

It's definitely happened to me, maybe potions of restore mana as a warrior?

[PowerWyrm]

It's definitely happened to me, maybe potions of restore mana as a warrior?

This happened to me with a mage and potions of speed squelched.

[MattB]

This happened to me with a mage and potions of speed squelched.

Is there maybe an argument for mimics to only mimic things that would only be squelched by a total lunatic?
e.g. acquirement, *acquirement*, healing, *healing*, life, RoSpeed...

[Derakon]

No, because then finding one of those items would be a big clue that you saw a mimic.

As it is, in the late-game unidentified flavors are almost always mimics -- you're more likely to learn the flavor of a Ring of Speed by killing a ring mimic than by finding an actual ring. I don't think that we necessarily want to make that even more extreme.

[donalde]

It would be nasty to see 'a plain gold ring' and it turns out to be ring mimic

[MattB]

No, because then finding one of those items would be a big clue that you saw a mimic.

As it is, in the late-game unidentified flavors are almost always mimics -- you're more likely to learn the flavor of a Ring of Speed by killing a ring mimic than by finding an actual ring. I don't think that we necessarily want to make that even more extreme.

Fair enough, just an idea.
Although maybe removing a couple of the more eminently squelchable ones of the list might make sense? (e.g. potions of restore mana)

[MattB]

It would be nasty to see 'a plain gold ring' and it turns out to be ring mimic

You find a plain gold ring. It turns out to be a plain gold ring.

[damerell]

Although maybe removing a couple of the more eminently squelchable ones of the list might make sense? (e.g. potions of restore mana)

With Gorging going in 3.5 (last I checked) an "automatically consume if appropriate & no monsters in sight" option might be interesting, so you'd just hoover up CLW when wounded rather than squelching them. :-/