Why is there a neutral gender?

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  • T-Mick
    Adept
    • Mar 2012
    • 120

    Why is there a neutral gender?

    Pretty sure that only vanilla has it, and it doesn't mean anything. What was the rationale here?
  • Derakon
    Prophet
    • Dec 2009
    • 9022

    #2
    Why shouldn't there be a neutral gender? Gender identity is a very thorny issue and my general attitude here is "people should be allowed to call themselves whatever they like". Given the sheer variety of different identities (e.g. "male-to-female pre-op trans"), though, "neutral" serves as a convenient "decline to specify".

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    • clouded
      Swordsman
      • Jun 2012
      • 268

      #3
      The question is why does the game have you choose a gender at all. It is a pointless extra keypress during character creation, if you want to imagine yourself as one or the other, then you can do so without the game asking you about it.

      Comment

      • DaviddesJ
        Swordsman
        • Mar 2008
        • 254

        #4
        I think the reason for specifying the gender is to fill in the blanks in the character biography that the game automatically generates. Some of the terms there depend on your gender.

        Whether that's a good or bad reason, I don't know.

        Comment

        • Patashu
          Knight
          • Jan 2008
          • 528

          #5
          Originally posted by clouded
          The question is why does the game have you choose a gender at all. It is a pointless extra keypress during character creation, if you want to imagine yourself as one or the other, then you can do so without the game asking you about it.
          It matters when tiles are used, and the tiles distinguish between genders.
          My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu

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          • DaviddesJ
            Swordsman
            • Mar 2008
            • 254

            #6
            I'm pretty sure the gender selection existed long before tiles, so that wasn't the original reason, although it is certainly a current reason.

            Comment

            • ekolis
              Knight
              • Apr 2007
              • 921

              #7
              So what kind of tiles does a neuter character use?
              You read the scroll labeled NOBIMUS UPSCOTI...
              You are surrounded by a stasis field!
              The tengu tries to teleport, but fails!

              Comment

              • PowerWyrm
                Prophet
                • Apr 2008
                • 2986

                #8
                Originally posted by T-Mick
                Pretty sure that only vanilla has it, and it doesn't mean anything. What was the rationale here?
                Some variants could have races that have no gender. Like golems and such...
                PWMAngband variant maintainer - check https://github.com/draconisPW/PWMAngband (or http://www.mangband.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=9) to learn more about this new variant!

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                • JohnCW9
                  Adept
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 118

                  #9
                  Originally posted by T-Mick
                  Pretty sure that only vanilla has it, and it doesn't mean anything. What was the rationale here?
                  Vanilla doesn't have it least the ones that I played.
                  My first legit winner http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=5114

                  Comment

                  • Quendus
                    Scout
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 32

                    #10
                    Originally posted by JohnCW9
                    Vanilla doesn't have it least the ones that I played.
                    It's a recent addition (version 3.2 or so). I started using this option as soon as it was available.

                    Comment

                    • ekolis
                      Knight
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 921

                      #11
                      Shouldn't you be Quendum then?
                      You read the scroll labeled NOBIMUS UPSCOTI...
                      You are surrounded by a stasis field!
                      The tengu tries to teleport, but fails!

                      Comment

                      • fph
                        Veteran
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 1030

                        #12
                        Do the "titles" based on class and level change according to gender? If they are taken directly from the edit files (p_class.txt), it seems that the answer is no. So you'd still get for instance "Ranger Lord" for a female character.
                        From a quick glance, it seems that the history in p_hist.txt is completely gender-neutral, too ("You are the only child of...").

                        (This is based on the edit files published on this site, which refer to 3.1.2v2).

                        So, apart from tiles, it is not clear to me whether the gender is used at all in the game.
                        --
                        Dive fast, die young, leave a high-CHA corpse.

                        Comment

                        • Magnate
                          Angband Devteam member
                          • May 2007
                          • 5110

                          #13
                          Originally posted by fph
                          So, apart from tiles, it is not clear to me whether the gender is used at all in the game.
                          I think it only affects height and weight (which themselves are not used).

                          The answer to the OP's question is that the neutral gender was added by one of the devs who feels strongly about gender identity issues and was peeved by having to choose between male and female. As Derakon notes, 'neutral' covers a whole lot of alternatives.
                          "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                          Comment

                          • ekolis
                            Knight
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 921

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Magnate
                            The answer to the OP's question is that the neutral gender was added by one of the devs who feels strongly about gender identity issues and was peeved by having to choose between male and female. As Derakon notes, 'neutral' covers a whole lot of alternatives.
                            I'd think that transgendered folks having to identify as "neutral" would just offend them even more... What do you mean, "neutral"? I'm not a fixed dog!
                            You read the scroll labeled NOBIMUS UPSCOTI...
                            You are surrounded by a stasis field!
                            The tengu tries to teleport, but fails!

                            Comment

                            • Derakon
                              Prophet
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 9022

                              #15
                              I suspect you should avoid trying to guess what transgendered (or otherwise genderqueer) people think about different options. This is a touchy subject, and it's easy to make enemies.

                              Comment

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