Unique killed by monster

[scud]

In my current game I've finally been credited with a Master Q kill; have already killed 3-4 with orb of draining, but they were unseen and untargeted.

Which prompts this supremely unimportant question:

If, for example, Morgoth summoned Farmer Maggot, and the poor chap was then reduced to a pile of hobbit dust by a monster's ranged attack, would the monster knowledge run with 'You have slain this foe' or is there a 'This foe is dead' alternative text?

[Timo Pietilä]

In my current game I've finally been credited with a Master Q kill; have already killed 3-4 with orb of draining, but they were unseen and untargeted.

Which prompts this supremely unimportant question:

If, for example, Morgoth summoned Farmer Maggot, and the poor chap was then reduced to a pile of hobbit dust by a monster's ranged attack, would the monster knowledge run with 'You have slain this foe' or is there a 'This foe is dead' alternative text?

Uniques can't be killed by other uniques. Earthquake/destruction or trampling can remove one from level but that is not death for them. I think normal damage stops at 1HP left if the initiator is not player. At least I have never seen unique killed by other monster.

[Estie]

In tome2 (where players can have allied monsters) what Timo said applies, with the exception that dots (poison or shard) can actually remove that last hit point, killing the unique. I wonder if this also is true in vanilla.

[Philip]

Well, since the only things that damage monsters in V are monsters or the player, that is moot. NPP might hace some rules about this.

[Nick]

Well, since the only things that damage monsters in V are monsters or the player, that is moot. NPP might hace some rules about this.

Monsters in V and (as far as I know) all variants can be damaged or killed by other monsters' breath, missiles etc., but uniques cannot be killed by this method - if they would have died, instead they are reduced to 0HP.

[scud]

Thanks everyone.

Secondary question: could Morgy call upon Maggot? He obviously only appears of his own accord at town level; does that preclude him from being conjured up by a unique-summoner?

[PowerWyrm]

Thanks everyone.

Secondary question: could Morgy call upon Maggot? He obviously only appears of his own accord at town level; does that preclude him from being conjured up by a unique-summoner?

You cannot generate force_depth monsters outside of their level. For the same reason, you cannot have Sauron or Morgoth summoned as an out-of-depth monster earlier in the dungeon.

[Derakon]

You cannot generate force_depth monsters outside of their level. For the same reason, you cannot have Sauron or Morgoth summoned as an out-of-depth monster earlier in the dungeon.

Y'know, I was going to give this answer, and then I checked Maggot's entry; he doesn't have FORCE_DEPTH! Neither do any of the townsfolk. So I have no idea why they don't show up in the dungeon.

[Nomad]

Y'know, I was going to give this answer, and then I checked Maggot's entry; he doesn't have FORCE_DEPTH! Neither do any of the townsfolk. So I have no idea why they don't show up in the dungeon.

Presumably monster generation in-dungeon allows for a minimum native depth of 1, so monsters with a native depth of 0 are never generated?

[PowerWyrm]

Along with the force_depth check, there's a check for depth = 0 in get_mon_num(), so no townies can be generated in the dungeon.

[Bagplant]

Uniques can't be killed by other uniques. Earthquake/destruction or trampling can remove one from level but that is not death for them. I think normal damage stops at 1HP left if the initiator is not player. At least I have never seen unique killed by other monster.

This is true. Morgoth summoned Rogrog the Black Troll pretty early on during my last win. Rogrog never died, although he didn't exactly have a nice time. Naturally I wasn't about to kill him myself while Morgoth was alive (on the grounds that he was probably less dangerous than whatever might replace him) and it certainly appeared that nothing else was able to.

I was going to kill him afterward but he ended up being removed from the level by an earthquake near the end. I guess he had a good story to tell his grandchildren.