some comments on speed

[LostTemplar]

Without artifacts the game become suddenly much more interesting, euipment choices will be meaningfull, your no longer can have everyting you want twice, even having it once will be a challenge. So I vote for elf paladin no artifacts ironman.

[Estie]

I miss the high speed gameplay from early versions/tome2. As it stands, with the sharp speed diminishing returns, everyone has basically same speed lategame. You only need to make sure you hit the relevant breaks with your equipped setup.

I have very fond memories of playing sorcerors in tome2, which had few hitpoints, but insane speed. The game of not letting monsters get LOS is much more tactical, challenging and (for me) enjoyable than avoiding monster completely till the proper resists for survival are acquired, then meleeing it 1 on 1. Yes, even pillardance beats pressing the direction button + drinking heal. No, its not the most brilliant gameplay, and anyone who can provide better ways is welcome to do so, but I dont consider "hit direction button till its dead" to be superior or in any way less "cheesy".

Of the 2 alternatives:

1. evil lich in dungeon can kill you in 1 round with poison, but if you get fast enough, you can pillerdance it

2. you can never get (much) faster than evil lich, but you can acquire poison resistance (thus no longer be 1-hitable) and then fight him head on

I prefer the 1st.


edit: clarification

[Derakon]

I miss the high speed gameplay from early versions/tome2. As it stands, with the sharp speed diminishing returns, everyone has basically same speed lategame. You only need to make sure you hit the relevant breaks with your equipped setup.

The diminishing returns for speed have been around for over a decade, well before ToME2 split off. Just to be clear.

I do remember, however, making a wizard-mode character in 2.4 and being able to pump up speed absurdly high (IIRC the speeds went something like Fast -> Very Fast -> Extremely Fast -> Ludicrous Speed -> Light Speed -> Light Speed 2, etc.). I just held down the "increment" key for awhile. Then I took a single step and immediately died of starvation. Fun times.

[Estie]

The diminishing returns for speed have been around for over a decade, well before ToME2 split off. Just to be clear.

I do remember, however, making a wizard-mode character in 2.4 and being able to pump up speed absurdly high (IIRC the speeds went something like Fast -> Very Fast -> Extremely Fast -> Ludicrous Speed -> Light Speed -> Light Speed 2, etc.). I just held down the "increment" key for awhile. Then I took a single step and immediately died of starvation. Fun times.

Yes, tome2 had the diminishing returns, I am aware; the buff, however, wasnt a fixed +10, but rather a skill dependant amount that started at +10.
The question is wether or not its possible to achive double speed. Reaching that changes the gameplay.

[LostTemplar]

you can never get (much) faster than evil lich, but you can acquire poison resistance (thus no longer be 1-hitable) and then fight him head on

Btw to pillardance you only need to be somewhat faster, no need to be at double speed, however you need some skill then. I have done fight against Glaurung in FAangband once with +15 versus +10 without sufficent fire resist (so one breath would be fatal)

However I dont like basic resistance mechanics. Having a deadly attack with an easy to obtain and thus must have resist is imho a bad design overall. "High" resists are ok as they are since they are harder to obtain, nice to have but you can also be ok without them.

[Estie]

Btw to pillardance you only need to be somewhat faster, no need to be at double speed, however you need some skill then. I have done fight against Glaurung in FAangband once with +15 versus +10 without sufficent fire resist (so one breath would be fatal)

However I dont like basic resistance mechanics. Having a deadly attack with an easy to obtain and thus must have resist is imho a bad design overall. "High" resists are ok as they are since they are harder to obtain, nice to have but you can also be ok without them.

Right! Forgot about that; 2 move 1 attack sequences, and 3-1. I think I even used 4-1 when the target was really worth the risk (like Trone, though it wasnt usually pillar with the perma walls but rather phase door portal).