Some thoughts on Home inventory and a question about shop code

**Derakon** · March 19, 2013, 20:32

Originally posted by academic.sam

My question is the comment that says menu->cmd_keys and menu->selections should not intersect. I haven't seen any ill effects so far. If a dev-team member can comment on if I've overlooked anything, I'd really appreciate it.

My guess is that this is for exactly the reason you noted: you can't go straight to an item whose slot uses a command key. Personally I don't find it jarring to have "missing letters" in the shop display; it's a little weird, but you quickly get used to it. Whereas being forced to use the arrow keys to select certain items is definitely a bug.

I can appreciate the complaint about lacking home space though. Many users have complained about it, and I don't see any good balance reasons to restrict the home size.

**academic.sam** · March 20, 2013, 02:19

Thanks for the clarification. That was my guess. What I was trying to say was that the ability to press a letter and go to that entry directly doesn't really save any keystrokes or time when in the store. So, I was OK with not having that ability at all in exchange for orderly index

If home inventory slots gets increased, that also seems to increase the store slots as well. However, they don't seem to restock to the max. Only effect would be that you can sell more stuff.

Regards
Sam

**Timo Pietilä** · March 20, 2013, 07:20

Originally posted by Derakon

I don't see any good balance reasons to restrict the home size.

I think the reason is same as limited inventory space: to force player to choose what to keep and what not. I wouldn't mind if the home gets increased by just a few slots though: it feels smaller than in old games somehow even that it is 24 slots just like it was in 2.9.3, maybe because there are now more stuff to tweak with.

**Mondkalb** · March 20, 2013, 08:57

Wouldn't it be possible and easier to code, if there were different "rooms" in the house, represented by different pages, that were reserved for different item categories, like weapons, armor, rings and amulets, scrolls and other magical items, and potions. Each category could be called up by a letter or symbol or whatever keystrokes are currently still not used.

**Derakon** · March 20, 2013, 15:15

Originally posted by Timo Pietilä

I think the reason is same as limited inventory space: to force player to choose what to keep and what not.

The problem I have with that explanation is that I don't really think that this creates any interesting kind of difficulty. If you could access your home while in the dungeon, then sure, I'd agree with you, but you can't.

EDIT: also, I could have sworn that the old homes went from (a) through (v) on two pages; surely even with skipped letters that's more than 24 slots.

**debo** · March 20, 2013, 18:00

Originally posted by Derakon

The problem I have with that explanation is that I don't really think that this creates any interesting kind of difficulty. If you could access your home while in the dungeon, then sure, I'd agree with you, but you can't.

EDIT: also, I could have sworn that the old homes went from (a) through (v) on two pages; surely even with skipped letters that's more than 24 slots.

@ decided he wanted a condo instead. He could only afford a jr 1-bedroom. No cheap credit lying around anymore!

**academic.sam** · March 20, 2013, 19:54

I'm a pack rat and like to collect things. Since I play slowly, I tend to get attached to my @ and like to admire my loot while in town.

What I'd really like to do is to make a trophy room/museum (similar to what Mondkalb mentioned) that allows me to store all my artifacts. Perhaps charge a small fee to take one out for a run.

If someone can tell me whether there is an easy way to determine if an object is an artifact, that would save me a bit of time.

**Mondkalb** · March 20, 2013, 19:58

In the newer version of the game, artifacts are identified as "special" and know by their name and some basic attributes as soon as you pick them up.

Earlier, if you don't want to wait for pseudo id, you can try to destroy an item. Artifacts can't be destroyed (exept by destruction spells - that was an easy way in old times after you had cleared a dragon pit or whatever and looted all potions and scrolls and stuff you needed, you just could cast destruction and everything was gone unless it was an artifact in that spot; this has been changed, I believe for game balance).

**academic.sam** · March 20, 2013, 20:14

Actually, I meant within the source. E.g. Is there any object flag I could test to determine if an object is an artifact.

**Ed_47569** · March 21, 2013, 01:01

Originally posted by Timo Pietilä

I think the reason is same as limited inventory space: to force player to choose what to keep and what not. I wouldn't mind if the home gets increased by just a few slots though: it feels smaller than in old games somehow even that it is 24 slots just like it was in 2.9.3, maybe because there are now more stuff to tweak with.

Home is just fine as it is I think...I mainly use it to store *Healing*, Life, banishment and Mass banishment. Then a few artifacts, usually stuff that provide rPoison and rDisenchant. The home has not changed since 2.7.8 when I started playing, except it all appears on one screen now instead of two - which creates an illusion that it is smaller!

**Derakon** · March 21, 2013, 01:16

One screen that goes from (a) to (w) is, at the very most, 23 slots. Two screens that go from (a) to (v) each are, at the very most, 44 slots. If you assume that, say, 4 letters are unavailable (get, purchase, drop, sell) then it's 19 and 36 slots, respectively. I find it hard to believe that there's actually the same number of slots now as there used to be.

**Timo Pietilä** · March 21, 2013, 08:04

Originally posted by Derakon

EDIT: also, I could have sworn that the old homes went from (a) through (v) on two pages; surely even with skipped letters that's more than 24 slots.

2.9.3 actually went from a to x, but still had only 24 slots. None of the command letters were not used.

It could be that the really old ones actually had one slot less/page so 22 for home. I have vague memory that there was rather intense discussion about adding one more letter to home and same with inventory. One of the reasons old games were so much harder was inventory and home management: none of the staves stacked, and rods and wands stack only with identical charges. With quiver in the game now we have tremendous amount more space in inventory than we used to have.

[EDIT] just checked, none of the command letters are omitted from the selection.

**Timo Pietilä** · March 21, 2013, 08:20

Originally posted by Derakon

One screen that goes from (a) to (w) is, at the very most, 23 slots. Two screens that go from (a) to (v) each are, at the very most, 44 slots. If you assume that, say, 4 letters are unavailable (get, purchase, drop, sell) then it's 19 and 36 slots, respectively. I find it hard to believe that there's actually the same number of slots now as there used to be.

It uses two pages, but letters go from a to x only once. Second page has letters from m to x. First has a to l. In 2.9.3 there seem to be no non-used letters. It's flat a to x.

Older ones could have different way of showing that, but OTOH when you have action-selection sequence as only choice you don't actually need to remove command letters from inventory. Reason why current angband doesn't have those was that (IMO inconsistent) selection-action sequence, which would not work if you try to put something on or check inventory or equipment and there were item using letter w, i or e.

**Derakon** · March 21, 2013, 15:22

Okay, thanks for looking that up. Hm. So much for memory.

Some thoughts on Home inventory and a question about shop code

Some thoughts on Home inventory and a question about shop code

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