Poll: what does everybody feel like should be done with artifacts.

[Malak Darkhunter]

So, their has been some talk on 3.4 and item generation, specifically artifacts, what does everybody feel should be done with artifact generation?

1.Artifacts should be generated more common ala 3.2-3.3?

2.Artifacts should stay as they are, less common.

3.Artifacts should be even more rarer to find.

4.Birth_preserve should be permanently turned off.

[Derakon]

I voted for "leave things as they are" if only because 3.4 hasn't been out for long so we still don't have a good feel for exactly how well it plays.

I'm not sure what removing the preserve option would accomplish, aside from pissing off a bunch of players who don't like the idea of being permanently denied an item.

[fizzix]

I voted for "leave things as they are" if only because 3.4 hasn't been out for long so we still don't have a good feel for exactly how well it plays.

Exactly. Give 3.4 a couple months and then it will be time to have this poll. Btw, stats suggest that raw artifact generation is down about 35%. However, artifact generation in vaults and in unique drops should not have been affected.

So even if there's a desire to change drop rates, there's still a question to how to go about it.

[ekolis]

How about a compromise - leave the preserve option in, but if you turn it on, you're penalized by having a reduced artifact drop rate? (Or a not-increased artifact drop rate, if you decide to go with upping the drop rate!)

[fizzix]

How about a compromise - leave the preserve option in, but if you turn it on, you're penalized by having a reduced artifact drop rate? (Or a not-increased artifact drop rate, if you decide to go with upping the drop rate!)

The big problem with preserve option currently is that monsters come with their drops on creation. So that means you can clear out a level and still lose an artifact because a monster just spawned on the other end of the level.

[Malak Darkhunter]

The big problem with preserve option currently is that monsters come with their drops on creation. So that means you can clear out a level and still lose an artifact because a monster just spawned on the other end of the level.

could this be changed to where you don't lose the artifact unless it is on the floor?

[Timo Pietilä]

The big problem with preserve option currently is that monsters come with their drops on creation. So that means you can clear out a level and still lose an artifact because a monster just spawned on the other end of the level.

could this be changed to where you don't lose the artifact unless it is on the floor?

I thought that is how this already works. In all purposes artifacts carried by monsters don't exist until the monster dies and drops them (except that they can't get generated later if they are already carried by something).

[Malak Darkhunter]

I thought that is how this already works. In all purposes artifacts carried by monsters don't exist until the monster dies and drops them (except that they can't get generated later if they are already carried by something).

I thought that as well, at least in old angband, has then been changed at some point?

[fizzix]

Magnate knows better than I do, but I was under the impression that artifacts in non-preserve mode are only created once. And that includes those placed in monsters inventory.

[kaypy]

It used to be that monster drops were not generated until the monster died. Now that they are generated at the same time the monster spawns, there is code in the object clearing mechanism that treats artifacts in monster inventories as preserved.

From obj-util:

		/* Preserve artifacts or mark them as lost in the history */
		if (o_ptr->artifact) {
			/* Preserve if dungeon creation failed, or preserve mode, or items
			 * carried by monsters, and only artifacts not seen */
			if ((!character_dungeon || !OPT(birth_no_preserve) ||
					o_ptr->held_m_idx) && !object_was_sensed(o_ptr))
				o_ptr->artifact->created = FALSE;
			else
				history_lose_artifact(o_ptr->artifact);
		}

[fizzix]

It used to be that monster drops were not generated until the monster died. Now that they are generated at the same time the monster spawns, there is code in the object clearing mechanism that treats artifacts in monster inventories as preserved.

Thanks for clearing this up.

[Malak Darkhunter]

This polls is about over and it may be a little to soon but it is kind of looking like most people prefer artifacts being a little rare the way it is with the possiblity of maybe upping the generation chance a percentage or two to increase the overall amount of happiness all around.