A Few Questions/Observations From an Old Player

[Oramin]

That's kind of cool. Does it apply to all devices? For example, Staffs/Staves of Power, Wands of Drain Life, Wands of Annihilation, or Wands of Dragon's Flame?

[myshkin]

Ok, just how much damage is a Staff of Holiness supposed to do?

The description doesn't say, so I probed a type of Lich (Master?) and it had 1488 HP. I used the Staff of Holiness once and then immediately probed it again and it had 1290 HP.

That's 198 HP of damage. My Google search brought up values of 1d120 (all integers between 1 and 120 inclusive) and 120 (a set amount of damage).

Now, I don't mind it causing a lot more damage than it is supposed to but I am wondering what's going on.

The base damage is indeed a flat 120 HP. However, you get an additional percent of damage for each level your device skill exceeds the level of the device. In this case, it looks as if your INT is between 18/210 and 18/219, if you are playing a clvl 50 gnome mage. That combination would amount to a 65 percent bonus, or 198 HP.

[Oramin]

Ok, just how much damage is a Staff of Holiness supposed to do?

The description doesn't say, so I probed a type of Lich (Master?) and it had 1488 HP. I used the Staff of Holiness once and then immediately probed it again and it had 1290 HP.

That's 198 HP of damage. My Google search brought up values of 1d120 (all integers between 1 and 120 inclusive) and 120 (a set amount of damage).

Now, I don't mind it causing a lot more damage than it is supposed to but I am wondering what's going on.

[LostTemplar]

Angband is made in such a way, that, in general, there are many ways to kill monsters "for free", and this is not the easyest nor the fastest. E.g. dispelling a dragon pit with immunity is more abusive imho, also there is no reason to fight monsters, that are hard to fight in angband, you can simply teleport them away, and kill only monsters, that are pushover (dispel dragons with immunity).

Basically monster is only dangerous if it makes a surprise attack.

[Derakon]

Oh right, mages can cast that too. Oh well.

[Oramin]

Nope, playing a Gnome Mage, atm, not a Priest.

I actually prep the tunnel from the far side leaving a thin wall between me and the monster. Once the tunnel is prepared, then I break the wall and let him in.

Edit:

Ah, "Rune of Protection" for Mages not "Glyph of Warding". Different name, same basic spell.

[Derakon]

You want the [ code ] tag for dungeon diagrams. And yeah, this is a bit unsporting, but Glyph of Warding is just a teensy bit expensive to cast, and high-level monsters break the glyphs with astonishing regularity, so I'm not entirely certain it's worth the effort. Standing on a glyph in an anti-summoning corridor works nearly as well; you just take the occasional ranged attack or broken-through melee attack, after which you cast Glyph again, heal if necessary (since you're clearly playing a priest), and continue.

If others feel this is abusive, though, then it'd be straightforward to limit you to one active Glyph at a time, or some small maximum number.

[Oramin]

I've discovered a fairly effective and safe way to kill many Uniques; took out the Witch-King of Angmar and Gothmog in quick succession using it. However, I'm thinking it might be a bit unsporting.

As some of you have noticed, there appears to be an asymmetry in the targeting code. If something is a knight's move away from you and there is a block of stone on the inside of the 'L' then you can target the monster while it can't target you.

As an example:

AX
CD
XB

If C is empty space and D is stone, then A can target B but B can't target A.

If D is empty space and C is stone, then B can target A but A can't target B.

So, to take advantage of this you need to be able to cast Glyphs of Warding (or have a bunch of scrolls), an ability to make an anti-summoning tunnel, and a ranged attack.

Just build your standard anti-summoning tunnel, but instead of a single square then diagonal, make it two adjacent squares then diagonal.

XA   XX   XX

   GB   XX

(Hopefully that'll look ok when it posts.)

Then all you need to do is place Glyphs on each square which allows you to stop the monster in the right position. For example, if the monster is coming from the left in the above diagram, place the Glyph at G. The monster will be stopped at A, you remain at B and just keep pelting him.

Now, this obviously won't work with Morgoth, and it doesn't work very well with Huan since he seems to break the Glyph every other turn but, as I said, it does work well with some other monsters.

So, how about it? Unsporting?

Edit:

It didn't, let's see if the 'pre' tag works over here.

[Oramin]

I'd cheerfully give up some damage potential (say 250 to 300 range) for a lower chance of failure and not having to worry about destroying items. Frankly it is a bit discouraging to compare the Mage spells to Orb of Draining.

I need to constantly consider resistances and what items on the floor I want to destroy as a Mage. By the time I finally get Kelek's, I'm no longer trying to level, I'm engaged in an item search for the last few battles with the nastiest Uniques. The only reason I actually want to kill monsters is to get their drops.

Of course, I suppose I could look at it as having access to Banishment and Mass Banishment make clearing Vaults a lot easier so I have easy access to *those* items and the Kelek's spells do make it easier to kill individual monsters, including Uniques, if there don't happen to be items already on the floor that I need to worry about.

Well, I'll play with the stuff for a bit and see, but I'd still be happy to reduce the damage potential of Mana Storm for a lower failure rate and no item destruction.

[Derakon]

Folks, when working on the new version, it is fairly obvious that things like Fireball or Ice Storm will destroy objects, but it would be nice to know exactly what Mana Storm will destroy.

Mana Storm destroys everything. There's your answer. Okay, artifacts will survive. No other items will.

As for the 17% failure rate, it's still your highest DPS spell even with that. At level 50 it deals 400 damage, no questions asked, plus lesser splash damage to adjacent tiles. By comparison, Rift deals 40 + 50d7 = average 240 damage per hit (max 390), unless you get it to hit twice, but monster resistance to being teleported goes up with monster level, and of course there's no guarantee that the monster will teleport to where the beam hasn't hit yet, so that's unlikely. Meteor Swarm is a flat 55*4 = 220 damage per cast, very reliable.

Even given the 17% failure, your average damage over several rounds with Mana Storm is .83 * 400 = 332 damage/round. So for pumping out damage as fast as possible, it's your best bet.

I do agree that it's a bit disappointing that the failure rate is so high, but the alternative would seem to be to decrease the damage it does per cast, and it'd be a bit disappointing to not be doing "big" damage numbers with it when it does work. Anyway, your failure rate should drop to IIRC 13% if you max your INT.

[Oramin]

Yep, I backed up for a few turns and the amnesia went away; no need to drink a Healing potion.

I also just killed off a Dreadmaster who was kind enough to finally drop the last spellbook - Kelek's Grimoire of Power.

Cool, I thought, I can finally just use Mana Storm to clear out the rest of the chamber.

First off, I learn the spell. A level 50 Mage with an Intelligence of 18:210 still has a 17% chance to fail. Really? That high?

Then I do a test shot so I can how much damage it will do when I use it. I shoot it at a wall which happens to be next to an Amulet of Trickery. The amulet gets destroyed.

So, I can use the spell as long as I don't mind *destroying* all the potential loot that is already lying around? And I don't even have a 0% chance of failure?

Folks, when working on the new version, it is fairly obvious that things like Fireball or Ice Storm will destroy objects, but it would be nice to know exactly what Mana Storm will destroy.

[Derakon]

IIRC amnesia is usually pretty brief, but as always it depends on the cause. For example, eating a Mushroom of Emergency will make you hallucinate for far longer than getting hit by a weak chaos breath would.

Assuming I'm reading the source's (highly opaque) definition for the cause-amnesia spell correctly, they should last a flat 3 turns, which might vary depending on how fast you are; I'm not sure.

Also, several of the priest prayers cure amnesia (everything from Cure Critical Wounds on up), though of course you'd a) have to be playing a priest or paladin, and b) have to succeed despite the increased failure rate.

[Oramin]

Actually, I can still browse my spellbooks. That's how I noticed the 50% failure rate. Once it said I was affected by amnesia and the map didn't go away I started looking for other changes.

Thanks, so how long does it last and how does one get rid of it? I did a little searching which indicated it is supposed to be temporary, so there should be an approximate duration. I also found a post which said that Healing potions (along with *Healing* and Life) should get rid of amnesia. The description for Healing, however, doesn't mention anything about amnesia; yes, I'm probably going to be chugging it anyway but I'm in the situation that I can back up and don't want to waste the potion unnecessarily.

[Derakon]

...yes, thank you, and blindness of course. I wasn't on the ball last night.

[Timo Pietilä]

The new ailment is mostly interesting in that it makes scrolls un-usable, which nothing else in the game does.

Except confusion.