[V 3.4.0 RC 1] Question about how to survive "Something screams the word 'DIE!'."

[fizzix]

I think significantly lowering starting stats is an excellent idea - and it brings us neatly back to the idea of scrapping point-based generation!!

I don't quite follow that reasoning. However, I could imagine a situation where a random auto-rolled character is preferred, both for fun and for average performance. To do this we need the following.

• Do not penalize low STR as badly as we do now. (mainly carrying capacity but also blows) A mage with STR of 7 should be able to carry 6 books, 15 potions, 10 wands, a couple rods, 20 scrolls, and a staff or two, light armor on all body parts and a long sword without being slowed.
• Do penalize low INT and WIS for non-casters. Imagine a situation where INT of 3 means 95% fail rate on devices (but INT 7 is ok). WIS of 3 means 0% saving throw (50% with resistance??)
• Low CHR cause massive price increase. CHR of 3 could put prices up 10x regular values. CHR of 7 => 5x. CHR 10 => what is current for CHR of 3. (other alternatives like dropping CHR entirely probably should be considered if we do go this route)
• DEX breakpoints need to be moved up.

This goes far beyond just linearizing CON, it's really a massive project and probably requires a full redesign.

[buzzkill]

• Do not penalize low STR as badly as we do now. (mainly carrying capacity but also blows) A mage with STR of 7 should be able to carry 6 books, 15 potions, 10 wands, a couple rods, 20 scrolls, and a staff or two, light armor on all body parts and a long sword without being slowed.

This goes far beyond just linearizing CON, it's really a massive project and probably requires a full redesign.

Well maybe not a 7 of STR. 7 is weak, mage or not.

Figure that 9-12 is 'normal' given 3d6 generation, and that a magely race would likely get a point or two or three INT bonus, that leaves us with 11-14 average CL1 mage STR. As long as that is sufficient to carry the first 4 books, with 5 or 10 lbs of additional items/armour, I'd be happy. If such a mage desired more carrying capacity, rings of STR, stat swap, and minor speed boosts (to overcome slowing by burden) are all achievable early game options.

[Magnate]

Well maybe not a 7 of STR. 7 is weak, mage or not.

Figure that 9-12 is 'normal' given 3d6 generation, and that a magely race would likely get a point or two or three INT bonus, that leaves us with 11-14 average CL1 mage STR. As long as that is sufficient to carry the first 4 books, with 5 or 10 lbs of additional items/armour, I'd be happy. If such a mage desired more carrying capacity, rings of STR, stat swap, and minor speed boosts (to overcome slowing by burden) are all achievable early game options.

I agree with you, though fizzix's general point is still valid - it would require quite a lot of changes to get to the point where people felt comfortable just starting a character with average stats (i.e. 9-12 in most stats, say ~15 in their primary stat and ~6 in their dump stat).

[buzzkill]

I agree with you, though fizzix's general point is still valid - it would require quite a lot of changes to get to the point where people felt comfortable just starting a character with average stats (i.e. 9-12 in most stats, say ~15 in their primary stat and ~6 in their dump stat).

No doubt, but the benefits would be worth it. Currently, we have stats that range from 3-40, with everything below 18, nearly half the scale, largely irrevelent. It's like too muck junk, for stats.

[Magnate]

No doubt, but the benefits would be worth it. Currently, we have stats that range from 3-40, with everything below 18, nearly half the scale, largely irrevelent. It's like too muck junk, for stats.

Go on then - send me a spreadsheet of linearised stats and stat effects, and I'll put it into v4.

[fizzix]

Well maybe not a 7 of STR. 7 is weak, mage or not.

Figure that 9-12 is 'normal' given 3d6 generation, and that a magely race would likely get a point or two or three INT bonus, that leaves us with 11-14 average CL1 mage STR. As long as that is sufficient to carry the first 4 books, with 5 or 10 lbs of additional items/armour, I'd be happy. If such a mage desired more carrying capacity, rings of STR, stat swap, and minor speed boosts (to overcome slowing by burden) are all achievable early game options.

Some of the problems with mage strength an carrying capacity can be allayed by making books weigh 1/3 of their current weight. Gnome mages have a lot of maluses to strength, they'll probably be at STR = 3 with an average roll...

[buzzkill]

Boy am I an idiot, I just kinda switched from INT to STR there midstream, so 7-10 STR would be a more typical mage.

[Zyphyr]

Without also changing the Class and Race stat modifiers, going to "Average roll +Mods" will require great care due to the extreme range of mods currently in place.

Str ranges from +9 (Half Troll Warrior) to -7 (Hobbit Mage)
Int from +6 (High Elf Mage) to -9 (Half Troll Warrior)
Wis from 5 (Dwarf or Dunedan Priest) to -4 (Half Troll Warrior or Rogue)
Dex from 6 (Hobbit or High Elf Rogue) to -5 (Half Troll Priest)
Con from 5 (HT or Dun War or Pal) to -4 (Elf Mage)
Cha from 7 (High Elf Priest or Paladin) to -7 (Half Troll Warrior or Rogue)

Assuming an average roll of 11, that gives starting ranges of :
STR 4 to 20
Int 2 to 17
Wis 7 to 16
Dex 6 to 17
Con 7 to 16
Cha 4 to 18

Boy am I an idiot, I just kinda switched from INT to STR there midstream, so 7-10 STR would be a more typical mage.

Normal starting STR for mages would be 4 to 7 due to the -5 class penalty, and the best +STR a mage can get while still have +Int is a +1 (High Elf/Dunedan).