Functional purpose of town map?

[bunnies]

Not sure if this been brought up before, but

Whats the functional purpose of the town map besides:
1. Farmer Maggot
2. Flavour / atmosphere
3. Legacy / tradition
4. Annoying you with useless mobs that can kill you at level 1 if you're not careful/noob, or getting money/items stolen from you
5. Annoyingly running around to the various shops to browse/shop

I have restarted games simply because of the initial town layout, if the stairs are too far away from some of the shops (8home, 7BM, 5pots)

Suggestion to create an option for a menu based town for quicker navigation and buying/selling.

Is this a ticket in v4?

Thanks for hearing me out

[Derakon]

So in other words, you want this map?

#######
#.....# <-- Space for townspeople to spawn
###:###
#..>..#
#.123.#
#.4#5.#
#.678.#
#.....#
#######

(Not my idea; I just replicated it as best I can remember)

[relic]

Everything optimal and no annoyances, eh?

[Jungle_Boy]

Just put in a super wal-mart and the stairs! That's all we need

For the record I like having the town although the layout is sometimes annoying.

[bunnies]

Actually, I was thinking of no map at all;

Simply a menu where I can 1-8 and enter the corresponding store, or choose to > into the dungeon.

I realise there are other functional purposes to the town map:

- It's a safe map; therefore it allows safe experimentation, such as casting unknown spells for xp, using unId'ed items, visualising extent of light radius during the night cycle, for new players allows testing out spells and items, and perhaps others meta elements
(Day/night cycle is mostly for flavour I assume? Is there any functional purpose to it? Other than being annoying)

- Hunger/Poison is still active in town; it's possible to recall out from a heavily poisoned situation and die 1 step from the '5' shop - is this really intended?


Suggest to:
- Retain the map for flavour and experimentation
- Option to enter a town menu, for easier navigation

Possibly:
- Full hp/mp/satiation, fully cured in town
- Farmer maggot shifted to dlvl 1

[Derakon]

Honestly I think that the flavor and utility value of the town is high enough that a menu system isn't warranted. The only issue with the town is that townspeople disturb your running; it's easy to make an option that turns that off, but Takkaria didn't like adding new options. Of course, he's not in charge any more...

[buzzkill]

If I were in charge, I'd address comments like this by making the town slightly more dangerous overall, maybe the aimless merchant is packing a wand of stinking cloud, and a lot more dangerous in specific (random) situations. You know, the town folk will occasionally be ravaged by a horde of orcs or zombies. That's probably why I'm not in charge of much.

These are NOT serious suggestions (for V), not that I wouldn't seriously consider them.

[bunnies]

Honestly I think that the flavor and utility value of the town is high enough that a menu system isn't warranted. The only issue with the town is that townspeople disturb your running; it's easy to make an option that turns that off, but Takkaria didn't like adding new options. Of course, he's not in charge any more...

Nah, making the town people immobile is probably not a very good idea.
I wasn't thinking of removing the town entirely, more of an optional 'super-menu' where all the town services can be easily accessed.
The main annoyance for me isn't so much the mobs, it's really about the hassle of running to the various shops buying stuff, and checking out the BM's inventory every so often.

BTW, how updated is ~ -> Display contents of [shop]? Does it update when I'm in the dungeon? Or when I enter town? Or when I enter the particular shop? Thanks

[Malak Darkhunter]

If I were in charge, I'd address comments like this by making the town slightly more dangerous overall, maybe the aimless merchant is packing a wand of stinking cloud, and a lot more dangerous in specific (random) situations. You know, the town folk will occasionally be ravaged by a horde of orcs or zombies. That's probably why I'm not in charge of much.

These are NOT serious suggestions (for V), not that I wouldn't seriously consider them.

I think that would be more fun, you think your smashing a battle scarred veteran but in reality he has a wand of magic missles and phase door scrolls.


I believe FAangband has this option already discovered it by mistake I think by hitting a ~ key i think in town, keeps you from having to enter the shops.Regarding shopping by lists.

[Magnate]

Nah, making the town people immobile is probably not a very good idea.
I wasn't thinking of removing the town entirely, more of an optional 'super-menu' where all the town services can be easily accessed.
The main annoyance for me isn't so much the mobs, it's really about the hassle of running to the various shops buying stuff, and checking out the BM's inventory every so often.

BTW, how updated is ~ -> Display contents of [shop]? Does it update when I'm in the dungeon? Or when I enter town? Or when I enter the particular shop? Thanks

It's *not* updated while you're in the dungeon (no way you could get that info), but it does update the moment you hit the surface. We could add code such that it doesn't update until you visit the store in question, but that's quite a lot of extra work for very little gain (and indeed would be a step backwards for such as yourself). I prefer to imagine that unseen urchins come and give me each vendor's current stock list the moment I reappear on the surface - such is my notoriety.

[Derakon]

Nah, making the town people immobile is probably not a very good idea.

That's not what I meant -- more that even though they're moving around, you can still "run". There's a small chance that you could run in a direction and a veteran could intercept you and beat you over the head, but that won't be an issue except for the youngest of mages, who could simply not use the option.

[LostTemplar]

IMHO town monsters should be able to kill players at level 1, and probably even cast nether bolts (rarely).

[will_asher]

In DaJAngband, town monsters don't disturb unless they are awake, aware, and the PC is lower than clvl 20. Maybe I should make it 15.

EDIT: also in DAJ, some town monsters are non-agressive (they wander around and don't become 'aware' unless you attack them).

[fizzix]

I think a lot of the "problems" with the town would be resolved if we could make most of the town monsters neutral. They wander around aimlessly and don't disturb you.

[d_m]

I think a lot of the "problems" with the town would be resolved if we could make most of the town monsters neutral. They wander around aimlessly and don't disturb you.

Agreed.

It would be nice if the AI supported (at least) neutral monsters, and once that happened many/most of the townsfolk could be neutral.