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It seems obvious to me that monsters shouldn't carry items which can slay them (and if we agree on this, we ought to code a check to make sure that they are not generated carrying such items).
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How would this affect artifacts with multiple slays? Seems like it might make them even more rare than currently. It would theoretically be possible to create an artifact that couldn't be dropped because no monster could have it in inventory.My first winner: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10138 -
It would also make egos of slay evil rarer as a drop than any other slay, which seems like a pretty good thing actually. The overall effect would be that the more useful a weapon is, the more likely you'd have to get it from a vault than by a monster drop, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad balance shift to make.
Plus, as Timo says, there's suddenly a much better reason to try and kill angels. Perhaps those angel pits will become tempting to take on after all...Comment
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They could still be generated as floor items.
But I think I am persuaded by Eddie's logic that items would be picked up by those whom they slay, to keep them from being used against them.
But I'm also persuaded by those who espouse the value of the "tries to pick up foo, but fails" messages. So I'm still not sure whether we ought to change anything."Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The BeatlesComment
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From LoTR there is a part after Merry and Pippin got caught by white hand orcs where they described handling the westernesse origin swords M & P had, and how they hated to handle them (IIRC). They could handle them but didn't like it, so maybe we should change the message:
"picks up foo, but discards it with hatred" or something like that.Comment
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Maybe something like, "moves to pick up foo, but then draws back"?
I definitely think it should be preserved as a flavour element, plus it's actually quite useful when you're shooting monsters with slay ammo and they can't steal it all from the floor.
I also think it would be kind of a neat flavour thing to give Half-Orc and Half-Troll players some kind of penalty for using weapons with their racial slay on them, like priests get for using pointy weapons or weak characters for using heavy ones.Comment
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Given the replies here, I'm inclined to just keep things the way they are. Thank you all for the comments!Comment
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Since I got no traction with this bit of brilliance, allow me elaborate by adding another twist. What if monsters were less likely to pick up item when at full or nearly full health? Thus, they wouldn't initially carry items from the vault to drop at your feet and they may well take items with them as they flee. That's a win-win as I see it.www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.Comment
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Fleeing monsters are not going to stop to pick up items (in the theoretical world where picking things up takes time). They're too busy trying to get away from you -- survival trumps being a jerk to the player. And in the theoretical world in which monsters have a use for the items they pick up, they'd have no incentive to not pick up items when they're at full health; why wouldn't they prepare for fighting you?
In other words, your suggested idea would fix the main problem with monsters picking up items, but it doesn't make intuitive sense. I'd rather avoid obvious rule patches if at all possible.Comment
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I agree that there is a minor problem with monsters carrying things out of vaults, and this may solve it, but it makes absolutely no intuitive sense at all.
I would rather propose that monsters don't pick up things in vaults/pits. However, the number of times that I can abuse monsters carrying something out of vaults/pits is so small, I don't think it's worth worrying about.Comment
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I knew someone would put forth the counter-intuitive defense. It seems to be the last best way to disparage an otherwise workable idea, even when so much else in the game is un-realistic/counter-intuitive.
To this I say, like so many abilities that monsters have, like constant ESP, that make no intuitive sense, monsters are in fact able to pick things up without using any energy, and without incurring any inconvenience such as burden. Working under the premise that the monsters exist solely to harass, possibly kill, and generally make life as unpleasant as possible for the player, the proposed behavior is exactly the type of thing they would do. Deep, intelligent monsters, even more so.
If it makes it more palatable, think of it as an AI tweak. What would you do in their place? Would you pick up every non-usable item you happen to pass by, so that when 99% certain death occurs, your killer can become that much stronger? Of course not. If you were to survive long enough to flee, would you destroy or steal as many of the valuable items as you reasonably could in the process? Yes you would. It's perfectly intuitive unless you've already bought into the counter-intuitive mechanic that all monsters are in fact only minimally functional robots, and this is what they've always done, and so this is what they should continue to do, which to me is in itself counter-intuitive.
In short potato, potatoe. Whatever. The counter-intuitive coin has two sides that are often both perfectly valid depending on your PoV. It's either CI within the game universe, or CI within the real world, which is probably why it's used so often. You can apply it to almost anything, which makes it almost worthless.
edit: ...almost forgot [/rant]www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.Comment
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