Angband 3.3.0 is out

[Timo Pietilä]

You can't search inline help. You pretty much have to know what your looking for in order to find it. That's great if you already know the game, not so good for the nubes.

In order to search you first need to know what you are looking for. nubes would not know that, so search would be useless to them. Search is actually useful for the veterans that know what they are looking for and need to refresh their memory about exact numbers of something or something like that.

Inline help (help, not some strategy guide), does not need to be complex to be useful. For roguelikes explanation of different screens, commands, options, macros and inscriptions and short terminology guide is sufficient. Read those and everything else should be relatively obvious from the screen itself.

[Nomad]

I have vague ambitions of one day taking a crack at rewriting the whole of the inline help from the ground up. A lot of it can be made much more concise, and it really needs to be broken down into more logical sections, with properly descriptive names like "Items and Equipment", "Resistances and Status Effects", etc. Alas, I'm probably a little busy to take it on as a project right now, but it is something I've been poking at off and on. It would hopefully make it both easier to keep updated in future, and more helpful as a resource for looking up specific details.

[soyaki]

Congrats

Is it too late to say congrats on the release? 'Cause, congrats. And thanks.

/End threadjack

[buzzkill]

In order to search you first need to know what you are looking for. nubes would not know that, so search would be useless to them.

They they wouldn't be looking in the help files if they weren't looking for something, probably something they encountered in game. A noob could open a pdf and search for 'nexus' if hit by a nexus attack, and probably find what he's looking for. Not so easy with inline help unless you know where to look, in which case you probably already know what you need to know, so you wouldn't be looking in the first place.

[kaypy]

On the topic of help files, whatever happened to the brief command list page? That was probably the help file I wound up actually using the most (or these days, the file I go looking for and cant find the most)

[Timo Pietilä]

They they wouldn't be looking in the help files if they weren't looking for something, probably something they encountered in game. A noob could open a pdf and search for 'nexus' if hit by a nexus attack, and probably find what he's looking for. Not so easy with inline help unless you know where to look, in which case you probably already know what you need to know, so you wouldn't be looking in the first place.

I bet I can find anything faster in inline help and getting back to playing than leaving game, opening pdf, waiting it to open, typing what I'm searching and then getting answer and getting back to playing game. BTW, there is search in message log, why not in inline help?

"Nexus" could be explained in monster attacks -section under playing the game. (if we even want to explain what that does).

[Zikke]

A pdf help file would be so much easier to format, organize, and search than any in-game help documentation.

I find the current in-game help documents tedious to navigate, mostly due to the lack of useful navigation tools like a mouse, graphics, and standard searching shortcuts fitting my normal mental model of "a computer program" like using Ctrl-F to search.

[Derakon]

I bet I can find anything faster in inline help and getting back to playing than leaving game, opening pdf, waiting it to open, typing what I'm searching and then getting answer and getting back to playing game. BTW, there is search in message log, why not in inline help?

If I'm looking for help in a program, I leave the help open. So it's switch focus to PDF viewer, search for content, switch back.

In fact, this is better than inline help in many situations, where you want to be able to compare what the help says with what's going on in-game. The inline help has no memory of where you were, so if you want to read a paragraph, go check something ingame, then go back to reading the text, you have to navigate through the help system all over again.

External PDF help is objectively better for players who need to refer to help frequently. Inline help may be better for players who just want to look up one thing and get back to playing; it depends on the situation.

[Nomad]

On the topic of help files, whatever happened to the brief command list page? That was probably the help file I wound up actually using the most (or these days, the file I go looking for and cant find the most)

It's under the "playing the game" section.

[fph]

Just out of curiosity... Timo, what do you look for in the help files in these days? I thought that all long-time Angband players knew everything that is in there. Maybe some of the less-used keybindings?

[Timo Pietilä]

Just out of curiosity... Timo, what do you look for in the help files in these days? I thought that all long-time Angband players knew everything that is in there. Maybe some of the less-used keybindings?

What exact points different race and class get for skills and /level change to them (if there is one). I never remember those (except saving throw, which I remember quite well).

I usually check those when starting new char to help choosing what to play next.

I would like to have short explanation of magic inscriptions and better keymap help. For example I think there is inscription that prevents you from entering dungeon wearing something (like amulet of CHR which I use when shopping and usually dump it to the home while I'm adventuring).

[myshkin]

I would like to have short explanation of magic inscriptions and better keymap help. For example I think there is inscription that prevents you from entering dungeon wearing something (like amulet of CHR which I use when shopping and usually dump it to the home while I'm adventuring).

Keymap help is coming, I hope. I agree there should be better documentation of inscriptions. customize.txt has a "Using Inscriptions" section, but it's not quite complete. However, I don't *think* there's a "don't enter the dungeon" inscription. I see !, = (just =g), and ^ as special inscription characters.

[Nomad]

Keymap help is coming, I hope. I agree there should be better documentation of inscriptions. customize.txt has a "Using Inscriptions" section, but it's not quite complete. However, I don't *think* there's a "don't enter the dungeon" inscription. I see !, = (just =g), and ^ as special inscription characters.

The Angband macro FAQ at the old Thangorodrim site gives {^>} for "verify before going down stairs", and {^>^r^z^m^p} for "verify before leaving town via stairs, scroll, rod, mage or priest spell of recall". I tested the stairs version and that still seems to work in 3.3.0, so I assume the other will too.

[myshkin]

The Angband macro FAQ at the old Thangorodrim site gives {^>} for "verify before going down stairs", and {^>^r^z^m^p} for "verify before leaving town via stairs, scroll, rod, mage or priest spell of recall". I tested the stairs version and that still seems to work in 3.3.0, so I assume the other will too.

Ah, yes, that should work fine, but only on worn equipment. The game does not test for ^ inscriptions on items in the pack.

[Timo Pietilä]

Ah, yes, that should work fine, but only on worn equipment. The game does not test for ^ inscriptions on items in the pack.

That's what I was thinking. When I take amulet of CHR accidentally with me to dungeon it is on me because if I remember to pick up the amulet I was supposed to be using I would also remember to wear it and drop the CHR (changing amulet is a act with one purpose).

So '^' is the key. I need to remember that.

For inscriptions I would like to have one that puts things directly to quiver (arrows I have used). =g is not very useful anymore because it's main use was to pick up arrows after you had shot them, but that doesn't put them to quiver, and you do shoot from quiver, not from backpack. Maybe also some "priority"-inscription just for ammo, to shoot them in right order.