Is this a legit or cheesy tactic?

[fizzix]

In my most recent game I found myself chomping mushrooms of debility in order to regain enough SP to take out some monsters. Afterwards, I found myself with -3 points of strength (-2 con, but that was less important) and only about 25% of the way to the next level. I probably could have gotten there, but I saw an opportunity to quickly regain my strength. I detected a white wraith and woke it up. Then I stood by it until it exp drained me a level down, killed it, regained the level along with the strength and con point.

This is a long way to go in order to regain a couple strength points, and it's the first time I've ever bothered to do take advantage of this loophole. Should this be allowed? Or is it too cheesy?

[CunningGabe]

That seems cheesy to me -- we should probably only restore stats when your permanent level increases.

[Zikke]

I think it is exploiting the game system, but more importantly, why do we gain drained stats when we level up? That should look at what our max is for each stat after leveling and then apply the drained amount.

[d_m]

I think it is exploiting the game system, but more importantly, why do we gain drained stats when we level up? That should look at what our max is for each stat after leveling and then apply the drained amount.

In order to remove potions of restore stat, and make lower level dives last longer, we decided to make this change. Overall I think it plays well, and the "correct" solution here is to fix this pseudo-exploit.

[Timo Pietilä]

In order to remove potions of restore stat, and make lower level dives last longer, we decided to make this change. Overall I think it plays well, and the "correct" solution here is to fix this pseudo-exploit.

I got insta-all-stats-drained -breathed by time vortex at clvl 40+ just after gaining level. It would have been nightmarish long journey to regain all the stats unless there had been this "exploit". I let the time vortex to breathe few more times to get XP lowered to point where my clvl drop, then kill it and drink potion of RLL.

I fear the time when I am at clvl 50 with huge XP buffer and same happens again. There are way too few mushrooms of vigor and potions of augmentation in the game. Finding stat-potions can't be trusted, my CHR is just over 10 (internal) now after having STR, DEX and CON being maxed over 20 clvls ago, and both INT and WIS are still not maxed (INT isn't even 18 yet). Nexus is also still pretty dangerous and I'm almost at endgame depths already.

[dos350]

regain on lvl gain isnt legit the whole new version is illegitimate

[fizzix]

I got insta-all-stats-drained -breathed by time vortex at clvl 40+ just after gaining level. It would have been nightmarish long journey to regain all the stats unless there had been this "exploit". I let the time vortex to breathe few more times to get XP lowered to point where my clvl drop, then kill it and drink potion of RLL.

I fear the time when I am at clvl 50 with huge XP buffer and same happens again. There are way too few mushrooms of vigor and potions of augmentation in the game. Finding stat-potions can't be trusted, my CHR is just over 10 (internal) now after having STR, DEX and CON being maxed over 20 clvls ago, and both INT and WIS are still not maxed (INT isn't even 18 yet). Nexus is also still pretty dangerous and I'm almost at endgame depths already.

I'll advocate again to remove the 'drain all stats' option from time breaths. I'll also advocate again to having nexus stat swap, swap 1-4 points from one stat to another.


another idea. Instead of regaining on level up, how about regaining after you've gained some % of xp from the time of draining. We probably need to keep track of a bunch more stuff though.

[buzzkill]

... and so it begins (again).

[Zikke]

I personally believe there should be a rTime, rPlasma, and others, so that the player could gear into those resists, but would never feasibly be able to have all of them due to itemization.

[Derakon]

The current system is fine. Stat drainers are now more dangerous at higher levels, where restoring the stats is more difficult, than they are at lower levels. This makes high-level play more interesting. A serious stat drain can be handled if you hoard your mushrooms of Vigor. The exploit should therefore be removed; only restore stats on achieving a new level for the first time.

[Timo Pietilä]

A serious stat drain can be handled if you hoard your mushrooms of Vigor.

I have found total of three by the time I have got to dlvl 4200'. Two of them very early. One augmentation. I'm betting augmentation will be quite a lot more common than vigor. Mushrooms of any useful attribute are really rare.

[kaypy]

To return to the OP for a minute: If letting a critter drain a level is cheesy, is it more or less cheesy than a !lose_memory? And does this change if you were hauling/hoarding that potion?

[Tibarius]

stat drain, nexus swap

this is obviously a discussion for veterans, i wasn't realy able to follow the details ...

... but i got an opinion on the questions raised from the player point of view:

nexus attacks:
teleport level, teleport to or teleport away are nasty already
swapping stats is horrible, also it is beyond my capability of imagination how a bulky half-troll warrior suddenly be mega intelligent but weak.
I think a stat-swapped char is most of the times unplayable, except you were close to having 18/100 in all stats anyway. Dying is bad, but stat swap is even bader. My vote to remove stat swap attacks completely. If you think something like this must be in the game, lower one random stat for one point - so that you can compensate it with a gain stat potion.

time attacks:
XP drain is ok, this can be countered by restore XP potion / artefact
extrem annoying is huge stat drain, if i noticed it right the stats are even drained if sustained. My vote for lowering stats only if they are not sustained, if they are lowered the effect should be counterable with quaffing a potion of restore life levels. My current solution is: i leave a level as soon as i notice anything with time in it ...

[Netbrian]

I have found total of three by the time I have got to dlvl 4200'. Two of them very early. One augmentation. I'm betting augmentation will be quite a lot more common than vigor. Mushrooms of any useful attribute are really rare.

This mirrors my experience. I think this tactic should be removed, but these mushrooms should have a slightly saner distribution.

[Zikke]

You could make a Mushroom of Restoration (or some other title) instead of augmentation, which would be available at all parts of the dungeon and wouldn't unbalance the game since it wouldn't increase stats.