Deep monsters

[Starhawk]

One of my most interesting recent fights featured a running battle with a whole bunch of orcs and two umber hulks. Some more tunnelers deep down would tend to make fights more interesting. Preferably not all of them would be as dangerous or dangerous in the same way as Black Reavers. The idea I had along that line was a tunneling golem. Bashes down walls, obliviously crushes monsters that get in its way, hits hard for acid and earthquakes.

We don't get any explosive breeders past dlvl 40. That's another niche the rockeater bugs would fill.

If we work off some of Angband's D&D roots, purple worms should be able to tunnel. Could also add thoqqua (fire-based worms that tunnel, and attack to burn).

[jens]

That's a good idea. There are a lot of names in Silmarillion that can be used. Angels from the Christian mythology feels somewhat misplaced in Angband, though they are fun to fight and I don't really feel that they must go away. Ainur could be added without removing the angels, possibly. I don't have an opinion about that. Then there's the problem how to motivate why good Ainur would hang around in Angband. Maybe they are there to trample monsters while looking for Morgoth?

I feel that Angels are way more missplaced than Ainur in any case. Ainur are at least in the same mythology.

[EpicMan]

You could just re-brand angels as Maiar/Ainur to change the mythology without changing the experience (and without affecting current balance).

Angel monsters by the way are practically deep explosive breeders.

[Netbrian]

I feel that Angels are way more missplaced than Ainur in any case. Ainur are at least in the same mythology.

Yeah, probably, but I must admit, I'm fond of the angels and will be sorry if they have to go away. (My dream was to one day learn enough C to add even more angel monsters, and maybe some angel pits.

What kind of Ainur non-uniques are in other variants?

[Derakon]

You don't need to know C to add monsters. Just insert them into lib/edit/monster.txt.

NPPAngband has Lesser and Greater Servants of Manwë, Varda, Ulmo, Morgoth, Aulë, Oromë, Mandos, Yavanna, Irmo, and Tulkas, as well as Alatar the Blue, Pallando the Blue, Radagast the Brown, Ossë Herald of Ulmo, Saruman, Arien Maia of the Sun, Sauron, and Morgoth all being 'A' monsters.

[Raxmei]

I remember there being an online tool to help you do it. In any case it isn't terribly hard to puzzle out by hand.

N:###:Rockborer
G:I:u
I:120:25:12:20:10
W:55:1:0:150
B:BITE:ACID:4d4
F:ANIMAL | FRIENDS | MULTIPLY | WEIRD_MIND
F:RAND_25 | BASH_DOOR | KILL_WALL
D:It is a massive termite that bores rapidly through stone walls

Line N is self-explanatory. If this were an actual entry there would be a number in place of the hashes. 617 is the next vacent spot. Line G is display characteristics, in this case the symbol "I" and the color umber. Line I is speed (110 is normal speed, meaning this one is at +10), hitpoints, vision range, armor class, and alertness (lower is more alert). Line W tells you its native depth, rarity(1 is most common, 5 is quite rare), the number 0, and experience reward. Line B is melee attacks and you can have up to four. Line F is flags and that's where the monster builder thingy really would come in handy. If the creature had any magic it'd go on line S. Finally line D is description.

N:###arkspawn
G:S
I:120:3550:30:120:80
W:80:2:0:26500
B:CLAW:POISON:6d6
B:CLAW:POISON:6d6
B:BITE:PARALYZE:6d10
B:STING:LOSE_STR:6d4
F:EVIL | ANIMAL | SMART |
FROP_60
F:BASH_DOOR
F:HURT_LIGHT | IM_ACID | IM_POIS | NO_CONF | NO_SLEEP
F:FORCE_SLEEP
S:1_IN_5
S:BR_DARK | BR_POIS
D: A forgotten offspring of Ungoliant lurking in dark corners of the earth

This is Shelob with a few bits pared off and a few numbers bumped up.

N:###:Crushing hulk
G:g:Y
I:110:3640:20:175:40
W:85:3:0:27000
B:HIT:HURT:12d10
B:HIT:HURT:12d10
B:HIT:HURT:12d10
B:CRUSH:SHATTER:14d10
F:COLD_BLOOD | EMPTY_MIND
F:BASH_DOOR | KILL_WALL | KILL_BODY | KILL_ITEM
F:IM_COLD | IM_ELEC | IM_FIRE | IM_POIS | NO_FEAR | NO_CONF
F:NO_SLEEP
D:An enormous construct made from stone. It strides purposefully towards
D: you, crushing all in its path with earth-shattering power.

Based on the colossus, bone golem, and brass golem. I couldn't bring myself to make it move fast so it might not be as dangerous as it should be. I just made these up tonight so none are playtested. Another thing I'd like to make but it's getting late is a deep level equivalent to the Tengu.

Finally, I have a solution for those who don't want to kill Huan.

N:543:Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog
G:C:W
I:130:8000:50:160:10
W:90:1:0:40000
B:CLAW:COLD:9d12
B:CLAW:COLD:9d12
B:BITE:COLD:9d12
B:BITE:COLD:9d12
F:UNIQUE | MALE | ANIMAL | SMART
FROP_4 | DROP_GOOD | ONLY_ITEM
F:OPEN_DOOR | BASH_DOOR | KILL_BODY
F:IM_ACID | IM_COLD | IM_ELEC | NO_FEAR | NO_CONF | NO_SLEEP
F:FORCE_SLEEP
S:1_IN_5
S:BR_COLD | BR_LIGHT | BR_SHAR | BR_SOUN
D:A rather vicious dog belonging to Farmer Maggot. It thinks you are stealing
D: mushrooms.

[Djabanete]

Just a quick recap of ideas tossed out so far:

Nameless Thing [dig]
Ancient Necromancer [greater undead spam summon]
Stone Termite [dig/breed]
Osmium Golem [strong melee/tele-to/breathe gravity]
Tunnel Golem [dig/strong melee/crush monsters/hit acid & earthquakes]
Lesser/Greater Servants of [insert Valar][from NPP]
Darkspawn [Shelob parallel]
Death Tengu (???)
Crushing Hulk [colossus/brass/bone hybrid?]

Hengband specializes in obnoxiously strong non-unique deep monsters:

Keeper of Secrets
Great Unclean One
Spectral Wyrm
Hru
Sky Drake
Great Wyrm of Power
Unmaker
Fenghuang
Cyberdemon
Master Quylthulg
Star-Spawn of Cthulhu
Great Wyrm of Space-Time
Warp Demon
Nycademon

My thoughts: deep wall-chewers and wall-passers and breeders give the player a hard time.

My ideas:
Abomination: An enormous insect that breeds explosively, moves erratically, breaks through walls, and breathes acid.
Primal Elemental: Breaks through walls, hurls boulders, breathes lightning/fire/cold/light, casts haste/heal self.
Dimensional Shambler: Breathes nexus, plasma and gravity, passes through walls, blinks and teleports.

[Antoine]

N:543:Wolf, Farmer Maggot's dog
G:C:W
I:130:8000:50:160:10
...
D:A rather vicious dog belonging to Farmer Maggot. It thinks you are stealing
D: mushrooms.

LOL...legendary

A.

[artes]

My thoughts: deep wall-chewers and wall-passers and breeders give the player a hard time.

How about a wall-chewing breeder?

[Magnate]

How about a wall-chewing breeder?

O and S have that awful blinking pink dot - it doesn't eat walls but it does have PASS_WALL, which makes it equally impossible to contain.

[Nick]

How about a wall-chewing breeder?

From O:

N:453:Intermittent Software Bug
G:I:r
I:120:1d4:20:1:0
W:42:9:45:16
B:BITE:HURT:1d3
F:MULTIPLY | 
F:OPEN_DOOR | BASH_DOOR | KILL_WALL | FLYING | 
F:ANIMAL
S:1_IN_3 | POW_0 | 
S:TPORT | BLINK 
D:AAAAHHHH!  They're everywhere!  You feel a rising sense of panic as 
D:you desperately try to hunt the last bug down.  Maybe it's time to 
D:play checkers?

I have used these to break into a vault when I had no other way.

[buzzkill]

The Angband Monster Creator.

I suppose it could probably use an update, but the basic components are there.

My finest creation - not for serious consideration.

N:617:a Fool
G:f:r
I:105:500d20:10:150:10
W:75:5:0:500
B:HIT:HURT:10d10
B:HIT:UN_BONUS:10d10
B:HIT:UN_POWER:10d10
B:CRAWL:CONFUSE:10d10
F:MALE | STUPID | FRIENDS | WEIRD_MIND | 
F:KILL_ITEM | EVIL | NO_FEAR | 
S:1_IN_20
S:DARKNESS | FORGET | 
D:A humanoid, lost in thought. He stands in your path, unmoving, and
D:does wish to be disturbed. You would be wise to respect that wish.

[Nick]

The Angband Monster Creator.

Awesome - I didn't know about that. I might have to take and repurpose it.

[CunningGabe]

The Angband Monster Creator.

That's useful, but I think the hardest part is deciding what all the stats should actually be.

Let's say I want to make a new snake at DL50. In order to make it snake-like, I look at a few of the existing snakes, comparing their stats (AC/HP/Speed/etc.) with other monsters of the same level. For example, I see that snakes tend to have above-average AC. So my new snake should have above-average AC compared to other DL50 monsters. And I have to make comparisons like this for every statistic.

If I could think of a nice way of doing it, I'd be tempted to include this information in monster templates somehow. Let the game establish some basic curve for each stat, and then have the templates modify these base stats by some percentage. Then you can just let the monster template determine the stats (with the option of specifying them yourself if you really want to).

[Tibarius]

1: Do we need more non-unique deep monsters? Do they add to the game?

No, i backup halfs point of view:

The obvious thing though, is to rescale the depths at which other monsters are found, and at the same time to make them a bit tougher. This way you help avoid making the toughest things in the game generic while having things like the Ringwraiths be mid-game entities.

I agree to Nomad as well:

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. I think the place to add new monsters is probably the middle levels, so we can shunt the existing deep monsters further down, and make it more attractive to stick around dlevel 60 instead of diving straight on to 90.

I think there's room in the midgame for more 'specialised' monsters - things that can hit you quite nastily, but only with one or two types of attacks, so that players with the right resistances can risk taking them on. I think breaths like light, sound and shards are pretty underused in the middle levels. Or just have more monsters with interesting combinations of attacks - ice and chaos, poison and nexus, dark and sound, etc.

From ChodTheWacko:

I have always thought that it would be interesting if various monsters had higher max hit points, but their average hit points (and experience) depended on dungeon level.

But why should a small kobold on level 30 have much more HP / power than a small kobold on level 3??? In fact, the small kobold on level 30 would rather be a big kobold

But the next idea is cool (also ChodTheWacko):

It's kind of an extension of the baby/young/mature/ancient thing we do with dragons, except for other creatures. That way although monsters start showing up at DLVL X, they still gradually get more and more dangerous the deeper you go.

It would also make Angband a bit more newbie friendly since getting breathed on by, for example, a baby green dragon lets you know what Ancient dreen dragons will do to you later.

Maybe with a wider range? Currently i can think only of "elder" ...
baby - young - mature - elder - ancient

I have no real clue about a whole bunch of monsters in Angband. Stuff i never heard of and have no imagination for.