Rings of Speed

[Angelus]

Is it just me, or did something change with these recently? Lately, I've been finding a number of rings of speed at around DL 30. That seems a bit too early for an item that good....I rarely find more than one per game (before level 30 that is), but they're still pretty frequent. And I don't think any of the ones I have found were in vaults, or even drops from uniques.

[Jazerus]

Loot before stat-gain seems entirely too strong right now; something changed between the last nightly and the first release candidate from what I can tell. At least, I don't really think I should be finding an Amulet of Trickery on dlvl 23, no matter how "superb" the level happens to be. It was a welcome find at the time, but in that particular game I was kitted out with stuff by stat-gain that I usually don't have until much later. Maybe it was just a run of unusual luck - but I can't say I've ever seen depth 70 items in the teens and twenties before the 3.3 RC line.

[dos350]

rofld nn2qq,

please dont cry when u find something good early, its actually a bonus~!~!!

ive found crazy leet stuff at like dlvl 4 and even off maggot (bos +7) , before any of these bs changes, so please, get over it

[ChodTheWacko]

Is it just me, or did something change with these recently? Lately, I've been finding a number of rings of speed at around DL 30. That seems a bit too early for an item that good....I rarely find more than one per game (before level 30 that is), but they're still pretty frequent. And I don't think any of the ones I have found were in vaults, or even drops from uniques.

Depends on how big the plus is - a ring of speed +1/+2 is kinda neat but there are plenty of rings that I'd choose over it.

- Frank

[SSK]

...I don't really think I should be finding an Amulet of Trickery on dlvl 23, no matter how "superb" the level happens to be ... Maybe it was just a run of unusual luck - but I can't say I've ever seen depth 70 items in the teens and twenties before the 3.3 RC line.

I found an Amulet of Devotion a few games back in the DLevel 20s--and this was either in 3.2 or in a nightly after 3.2 but before 3.3. But that was the only time. Usually before stat gain I am using an amulet of WIS (for paladins) or regeneration...

[Nomad]

Loot before stat-gain seems entirely too strong right now; something changed between the last nightly and the first release candidate from what I can tell. At least, I don't really think I should be finding an Amulet of Trickery on dlvl 23, no matter how "superb" the level happens to be. It was a welcome find at the time, but in that particular game I was kitted out with stuff by stat-gain that I usually don't have until much later. Maybe it was just a run of unusual luck - but I can't say I've ever seen depth 70 items in the teens and twenties before the 3.3 RC line.

I found an Amulet of ESP on dlevel 5 one time in 3.2. Not even in a vault.

(Then I died a horribly pathetic death killed by cave orcs a few levels later.)

I haven't noticed early speed rings popping up in the 3.3 RCs, though there do seem to be a profusion of good ones in the later game - I found plenty of +10s, several +12s and two +16s in the same game.

[Jazerus]

rofld nn2qq,

please dont cry when u find something good early, its actually a bonus~!~!!

ive found crazy leet stuff at like dlvl 4 and even off maggot (bos +7) , before any of these bs changes, so please, get over it

Yes, thank you for assuming that I'm "crying". My goal here is to improve the game by pointing out possible issues with what's going on. As a player, I certainly didn't mind getting very good stuff that early, but any time you download a new version and suddenly get a run of what seems like incredible luck, it's worth mentioning in case something actually was accidentally changed. I'm not upset at having unusual luck - and it does seem that that's what happened, based on the other replies - so I don't really have anything to get over.

[d_m]

So, in my playtesting game (which is over 1M turns and heading for a fight with Morgoth) I saw my first ring of speed on dlvl 98. I hadn't seen the flavor before with detect items either, and had been looking for =speed (hard) since about dlvl 40.

My experience doesn't prove anything, other than that people don't *always* find speed quickly. It's worth running some stats on but I am fine with some games finding =speed very early as long as it isn't most of them. The variance of item generation is one of the most exciting things about Angband.

[Derakon]

As far as I can tell the current stats generation doesn't track non-consumable non-ego+ objects -- so you can't track the frequency of non-artifact rings, spellbooks, ammo, etc. You might be able to track the availability of speed in general; there's some stuff with pvals that I haven't dug into.

[d_m]

As far as I can tell the current stats generation doesn't track non-consumable non-ego+ objects -- so you can't track the frequency of non-artifact rings, spellbooks, ammo, etc. You might be able to track the availability of speed in general; there's some stuff with pvals that I haven't dug into.

I'm pretty sure Myshkin generated some stats for me on how frequently Mushrooms of Vigour are generated. So I think this is possible, although I haven't personally looked at it.

[Derakon]

Mushrooms of Vigor are consumables, and therefore tracked. I should know; I made this:



However, what you can't do is something like "percentage of all items that are mushrooms of vigor".

[d_m]

Ah, I see.

But you should still be able to figure out "shallowest dungeon level with a speed ring in it" right? Just not what percentage of total rings are speed rings.

[Derakon]

To my knowledge, rings of speed (and jewelry in general) aren't tracked at all. I could be wrong; I haven't looked at every table in the database. But nothing looked to me like a table of general item allocations.

[fizzix]

To my knowledge, rings of speed (and jewelry in general) aren't tracked at all. I could be wrong; I haven't looked at every table in the database. But nothing looked to me like a table of general item allocations.

My monte-carlo sim is slightly different than myshkins and explicity tracks speed rings (although doesn't check for bonuses). Anyway I looked at =speed stats while running a sim for TO and made the following plots.

Speed rings jump up in probability bigtime when you get to dlevel 60. Both on the floor and in monster drops.

Before level 60, they are relatively stable between 30 and 55 (see the first zoomed-in plot) and have a floor allocation probability of something like 2-3%. Before level 30 they have well below a 1% chance of showing up, and if you find one you are lucky indeed. It is possible to argue that 2-3% is too high. If you clear (or repeat) levels, you'll have something like a 50% chance of finding a speed ring before dlevel 55.

Speed ring allocation late in the game is silly. This is almost definitely because speed rings are good items and the game tries to create them a lot deep in the dungeon.

[perdaniel]

Ring of speed (+8) at 1600'

I think that might have been lucky when I got my ring of speed (+8) from Lokkak, the ogre chieftain at 1600'