Scrolls and Staves of Summoning

[Netbrian]

How do people feel about tweaking scrolls/staves of summoning so that if you use them below 2500' or so, they have a high chance of summoning a unique? The idea would be to give players a way to make the pre-Morgoth unique hunt a bit easier for people that are so inclined (I'm really not big on Morgoth summoning, say, Vecna.)

One note is that I think it'd work best if the effect could place a unique within a fairly wide radius of the player (or even anywhere on the level.) I don't want the player to be able to use this to just conveniently dump their opponent in a rune-filled ASC.

What do people think?

[Tobias]

We don't even need the level limit.
Summoning could just (have a chance of) summoning an unique form a lower depth than the current level. This way if someone casts it as level 3 he can get smeagol at worst.

[fizzix]

We don't even need the level limit.
Summoning could just (have a chance of) summoning an unique form a lower depth than the current level. This way if someone casts it as level 3 he can get smeagol at worst.

I died once by using test-reading summoning and getting some orc unique and his escort, and dying immediately (first hit from 5 monsters killed me, despite that I was on stairs)

The problem with the suggestion is that it's too risky as it stands now. A deep summon could bring up 2 jabberwockies or a dracolisk and azriel. These combos can instakill a character. The chance is not high, but it's not low enough to be acceptable either. Also, gothmog, lungorthin, vecna and feagwath are a lot harder when their escorts are awake. You don't want to fight them through summoning if that can be avoided.

If summoning was reduced to one monster with a higher probability of it being unique then it could work. You still have the escort problem, but provided you have killed the escorted uniques you could use it to track down huan, charcharoth, tarrasque, azriel, atlas etc.

[Tobias]

I died once by using test-reading summoning and getting some orc unique and his escort, and dying immediately (first hit from 5 monsters killed me, despite that I was on stairs)

The problem with the suggestion is that it's too risky as it stands now. A deep summon could bring up 2 jabberwockies or a dracolisk and azriel. These combos can instakill a character. The chance is not high, but it's not low enough to be acceptable either. Also, gothmog, lungorthin, vecna and feagwath are a lot harder when their escorts are awake. You don't want to fight them through summoning if that can be avoided.

If summoning was reduced to one monster with a higher probability of it being unique then it could work. You still have the escort problem, but provided you have killed the escorted uniques you could use it to track down huan, charcharoth, tarrasque, azriel, atlas etc.

Yes if an unique is summoned he should be the only thing summoned. It should probably include his escort, though. But I don'T mind keeping it risky. Or we could make the summoned monsters be asleep when summoned. This would increase the value of summoning.

[buzzkill]

They are already one of the most evil, low level items you can find. If I read this right you're suggesting making then more powerful. I fear this will make them an even bigger player killer in the early game when characters are weak, and a tool for the end game character, who's already strong.

Items of Summoning aren't supposed to be beneficial to the player. They aren't meant to be mixed-blessing. Tweaking them to suit the player's purpose seems wrong. If you want deep uniques to be summoned, don't kill all the summoners.

I might be able to support a new item of *summoning*, which clears an area around the player (50' radius) of all walls and debris and has a decent probability of producing a unique.

[bulian]

Why not make the summoning traps do this instead?

[buzzkill]

Why not make the summoning traps do this instead?

I envision you constructing the 'finger pyramid of evil contemplation' while posting that.

[Raxmei]

Adding that to the items would allow you to go up the stairs a few levels and assassinate uniques above their native depth in controlled circumstances. That's a very big deal in the case of summoners and sometimes escorts, and in general lets you come to the fight well prepared in a dungeon level that's more or less safe to teleport in. If you want to make the hunt for uniques go quicker I'd prefer for summon unique to become a more common monster ability starting around 4250'.

[bulian]

I envision you constructing the 'finger pyramid of evil contemplation' while posting that.

Hmm but doing so would make it awfully hard to type, now wouldn't it?

[Netbrian]

Everyone here made some good points.

1. To deal with the native depth issue, you could simply not allow it to summon out of depth uniques.
2. When summoning uniques, I'm leaning even more toward it putting them a fair distance away, with their escort. I have no preference about asleep versus awake.
3. My suggestion was always that they'd only start doing this deeper. In shallower levels, they'd behave as they do today.

Allowing Summon Unique to be more common deeper on is also a good way to improve this.

[Derakon]

If you want to go unique hunting, you shouldn't be allowed to do it by means that are directly under your control. It's a purely optional thing in the first place so it doesn't need to be made easier or safer to do.

[dos350]

nn4staff, try stair of summon monster, unlimited charges , free and available from start of game!~

[JohnCW9]

Everyone here made some good points.

1. To deal with the native depth issue, you could simply not allow it to summon out of depth uniques.
2. When summoning uniques, I'm leaning even more toward it putting them a fair distance away, with their escort. I have no preference about asleep versus awake.
3. My suggestion was always that they'd only start doing this deeper. In shallower levels, they'd behave as they do today.

Allowing Summon Unique to be more common deeper on is also a good way to improve this.

It seems that I have recently seen scolls of Summon Unqiue used in one the past compition.

John

[Therem Harth]

I've never seen a Scroll of Summon Unique, but I don't think I like the idea. Strikes me as giving the player too much control. But then, I feel the same way about Banishment, so whatever.

On the other hand, I think summon-by-type scrolls (e.g. Scroll of Summon Spiders, or Scroll of Summon Demons) would be cool, and would by definition have a higher chance of summoning a unique at high levels.

[Nick]

It seems that I have recently seen scolls of Summon Unqiue used in one the past compition.

NPP has them.