a bug I wish hadn't been fixed

[Zyphyr]

The idea would be to force the player to handle the dungeon as the RNG serves it.

In the case of "next room over is 10 spaces away, but I have to travel 2/3 of the dungeon to get there", eliminating digging doesn't force the player to handle it as the RNG provides it... a few phase doors from along the near wall will enable the trip, and usually be faster than digging.

[jens]

In the case of "next room over is 10 spaces away, but I have to travel 2/3 of the dungeon to get there", eliminating digging doesn't force the player to handle it as the RNG provides it... a few phase doors from along the near wall will enable the trip, and usually be faster than digging.

@ is usually good at coming up with solutions to problems. And in my opinion phase door is a much better way to solve this particular problem. Better in what way? In that @ has less controll. Less control leads to more danger, and more interesting situations.

[Derakon]

So, warriors get hosed again then.

I find digging to be tactically interesting. I've always liked games that let you rearrange the terrain to suit your needs. If it's abusable, I'd rather make the monsters smarter so they won't enter ASCs and the like.

[jens]

So, warriors get hosed again then.

I find digging to be tactically interesting. I've always liked games that let you rearrange the terrain to suit your needs. If it's abusable, I'd rather make the monsters smarter so they won't enter ASCs and the like.

Don't really see why this would hose warriors more than others? I even imagine that mages use ASC more than warriors since Stone to Mud makes it easier for mages to dig.

Make monsters smarter is good... but even if I like the variation of some monsters not following you into corridors, if that was the norm... Well maybe I'd like that, hmm... it would require very much rebalance though, since Angband is balanced towards fighting the monsters one on one...

[Derakon]

Warriors get hosed because they're the only class without access to infinite phase door, and thus can't afford so much to try to use it to do a dungeon bypass.

[Starhawk]

In my ideal variant (Digband?) I would remove the weird hack where you can dig rock with a broadsword, and force the player to use items with actual digging power (e.g. Shovels, Picks).

I hope your ideal variant intends on adding a "digging tool" inventory slot, then. I dig with a broadsword because it is way too tedious to switch to a shovel or pick in my weapon slot, then switch back again.

[Nick]

I hope your ideal variant intends on adding a "digging tool" inventory slot, then. I dig with a broadsword because it is way too tedious to switch to a shovel or pick in my weapon slot, then switch back again.

You could make the tunnel command automatically switch to your digger if you have one, and fail otherwise.

[Derakon]

And then if you get disturbed, what, automatically switch back? If you want to have the digger use up an inventory slot while being equipment, just make it into another quiver-like system. Though, if a digger slot is added, then all non-digging-related attributes on diggers need to be removed. Otherwise that Shovel of Earthquakes turns into a Shovel of +6 STR...

[Zikke]

And then if you get disturbed, what, automatically switch back? If you want to have the digger use up an inventory slot while being equipment, just make it into another quiver-like system. Though, if a digger slot is added, then all non-digging-related attributes on diggers need to be removed. Otherwise that Shovel of Earthquakes turns into a Shovel of +6 STR...

Some ranged weapon artifacts have useful stats even for people that never shoot arrows.

[Derakon]

This was predicated on the assumption that there'd be a new digger slot. Adding a digger slot and then allowing that slot to boost your stats / provide abilities / etc. would just result in everyone running around with the best-boosting digger they could find regardless of whether or not they used it.

[Gockel]

i|m wondering, are earthquake-diggers really so crappy as a weapon? i never used them until i found grond on morgoth's ashes... but then the earthquakes seemed incredibly useful to me... granted, i started a completely suicidal play-style so my experience may not be transferable on the normal game, but the earthquakes saved me all the time from being attacked by several monsters at a time, and thus, certain death...
i agree that earthquakes may be slightly annoying when you want to move quickly through the dungeon, but to me it seemed like they also give you the ability to plow through whole groups of monsters without getting into deep trouble.

probably unreliability at lower levels might pose a problem, but since that win i definitely planned to try out earthquake diggers as a weapon...
is there no one who considers them at least slightly useful?

[Derakon]

Earthquakes are mostly useful for combat, though they're unpredictable; they're also terrible for loot. Being forced to cause earthquakes whenever you hit things also means you're triggering earthquakes all the time, which gets old fast.

[dos350]

lol dont remove dig , please dont! , sheesh, every day i see new idea to ruin game, no joke!

[Jazerus]

lol dont remove dig , please dont! , sheesh, every day i see new idea to ruin game, no joke!

Well, the whole point of development is to try to come up with good ideas to make the game more fun and interesting to play. Sometimes that involves thinking about ideas that "ruin the game", but usually the really radical change ideas are just stepping stones to coming up with ideas that are closer to the current system but still new and interesting. If you don't like an idea someone has, it's a good idea to tell them why instead of just saying you don't like it.

Digging isn't something I'd like to see go away either, to be honest. The player doesn't always need to take what the RNG dishes out lying down - and digging is a good way of getting around irritating level design, or "surprising" the monsters, particularly teleporting Qs and that sort of thing. It adds a fair amount of strategy in enough situations that taking it out is just reducing the player's options.

[dos350]

the game doesnt need such radical change, it is good in its state as of 320, and maybe was even better in 312v2, believe me it can get worse from such rash and terrible descisions even being proposed!

some people might think its good!