a bug I wish hadn't been fixed

[PowerDiver]

I hit something with an ego digger "of earthquakes", and it caused an earthquake. That never used to happen. I understand the reason for the change, but fixing it was a mistake. It would have been better to change the name.

I used to use that ego occasionally. I doubt I will again.

[edit]

SORRY EVERYONE.

It appears the code wasn't changed, and I just used it with a char with too much damage bonus, and that's all that is going on.

[d_m]

I hit something with an ego digger "of earthquakes", and it caused an earthquake. That never used to happen. I understand the reason for the change, but fixing it was a mistake. It would have been better to change the name.

I used to use that ego occasionally. I doubt I will again.

Which change "fixed" the bug?

[Derakon]

I think perhaps it used to be a low chance per-blow that an earthquake would occur, and now it's basically every time? It's been a long time since I tried out earthquake diggers; the annoyance factor is simply too great.

[PowerDiver]

Which change "fixed" the bug?

I have no idea. I'm playing code based off of a clone from 4/24, so before then.

I disagree with d_m. Even if the earthquakes were made rare, I still wouldn't use it. If you want it to be useful, the earthquake should be an activation fully under the player's control.

[Netbrian]

I disagree with d_m. Even if the earthquakes were made rare, I still wouldn't use it. If you want it to be useful, the earthquake should be an activation fully under the player's control.

I second this. Earthquakes are barely interesting when you want them, let alone as something that just happens.

Grond can say as-is though.

[Derakon]

I've gotten utility out of earthquakes only a handful of times in my Angband history. The most recent was with a paladin who wanted to clear a section of vault, but Ancalagon was in it. So he cast Earthquake until walls surrounded Ancalagon, and he was able to proceed. Otherwise, there's the rare situation where I need to block LOS of something stationary and earthquake's the only thing that will do the trick.

...actually, I think Ancalagon just ended up getting squished, but the principle is the same. And if you say earthquake shouldn't be able to affect vault tiles, then what would you suggest the spell be used for?

[Magnate]

Which change "fixed" the bug?

I've had a look at the git logs and the behaviour seems to have been unchanged for a long time: if OF_IMPACT && dam > 50, the earthquake function is called. It's possible that I simply couldn't see what was previously a bug (there's been a lot of refactoring of flag checking etc.) but I couldn't see any obvious change to the logic.

I've never used an earthquake weapon. It looks to me like a candidate for removal.

[Jazerus]

I've had a look at the git logs and the behaviour seems to have been unchanged for a long time: if OF_IMPACT && dam > 50, the earthquake function is called. It's possible that I simply couldn't see what was previously a bug (there's been a lot of refactoring of flag checking etc.) but I couldn't see any obvious change to the logic.

I've never used an earthquake weapon. It looks to me like a candidate for removal.

It's a digger ego, not a weapon ego per se. It is pretty powerful as a weapon if you don't have a decent artifact though, and it's also the best digger ego for tunneling - why remove it?

[PowerDiver]

I've had a look at the git logs and the behaviour seems to have been unchanged for a long time: if OF_IMPACT && dam > 50, the earthquake function is called. It's possible that I simply couldn't see what was previously a bug (there's been a lot of refactoring of flag checking etc.) but I couldn't see any obvious change to the logic.

I've never used an earthquake weapon. It looks to me like a candidate for removal.

I wonder. Did it just happen because I somehow had +50 to damage? When I care about the str bonus enough to use the ego, that seems like a very unlikely occurrence. Maybe I have changed my habits doing so much testing of my changes to the use-by-id code.

Sorry for the false alarm.

But I still think it should be changed to an activation.

I'll edit my first post indicating my cluelessness.

[buzzkill]

I'll occasionally use a staff of earthquakes to sloppily tunnel from one location to another. I never used one for offense, and in the context 'of digging', you could lose the earthquake property unless you're trying for a mixed blessing item.

A better solution would be to fix earthquakes, so that they are something desirable. As it stands now, "cave-ins" seems a more appropriate title. Opening a gorge in the earth that swallowed your enemies or separated them from you would be cool.

[Magnate]

I'll occasionally use a staff of earthquakes to sloppily tunnel from one location to another. I never used one for offense, and in the context 'of digging', you could lose the earthquake property unless you're trying for a mixed blessing item.

A better solution would be to fix earthquakes, so that they are something desirable. As it stands now, "cave-ins" seems a more appropriate title. Opening a gorge in the earth that swallowed your enemies or separated them from you would be cool.

So something more like Rift then ...

[jens]

So something more like Rift then ...

But perpendicular to casting direction?

I've been thinking about dungeon alterations... I have never understood the part of the game of digging for treasure. I have tried it now and then but it only feels like a waste of time. The other cases of digging are to create a better place to fight (easier place) or to get to a vault. I suggest that we redesign vaults, then remove the digging capabilities of @. Then balance monsters if needed.

[Derakon]

Digging is also useful for short-circuiting the dungeon, which often has long loops to get from point A to point B that are only 10 tiles apart as the umber hulk crawls. Personally I don't really see the case for removing digging.

[jens]

Digging is also useful for short-circuiting the dungeon, which often has long loops to get from point A to point B that are only 10 tiles apart as the umber hulk crawls. Personally I don't really see the case for removing digging.

The idea would be to force the player to handle the dungeon as the RNG serves it. This would force players into a lot of problems they can avoid if digging is possible, so removing digging would increase variation in what tactics are used etc. If some artefacts of dungeon generation makes it unviable, dungeon generation could be modified. (talking 4.0 or so here)

[d_m]

Digging is also useful for short-circuiting the dungeon, which often has long loops to get from point A to point B that are only 10 tiles apart as the umber hulk crawls. Personally I don't really see the case for removing digging.

I've always understood the desire for removing digging in similar terms to no-selling: to remove the incentive for cheap/boring/repetitive play (digging ASC, etc). I'm not saying I'm 100% in favor, but I can see the point. I have always had a soft spot for digging.

One thing I *would* like to do is making digging pretty much optional, by using rubble instead of stone where required, and linking vaults up in a more sensible manner (so you don't have to dig through 20-40 squares to get to the "granite entrance").

In my ideal variant (Digband?) I would remove the weird hack where you can dig rock with a broadsword, and force the player to use items with actual digging power (e.g. Shovels, Picks). I would also make digging less predictable... instead of digging a single block reliably after N turns you might dig out a few, or dig out one but convert many adjacent squares to rubble, etc. If you combine this with giving certain monsters the ability to dig rubble but not stone (e.g. trolls maybe) and make most monsters use digging mechanics similar to the player (e.g. N turns rather than 1 + move) this can get kind of interesting.

Along similar lines, I think there's a good case to be made for nerfing stone-to-mud wand/spell by making them beam. I'm not worried about the player (or monsters) crazily destroying the dungeon... that sounds fun. Rather I'm worried about someone micromanaging anti-summoning corridors, trick-shots, and the like.