Permanently available items

[Derakon]

Takkaria requested a proposal on what store items should

* Always be available in stores in unlimited quantity,
* Generally be available, and
* Should occasionally be available

So, here's my go. Feel free to suggest alterations, insult my reasoning, etc. I'm just going by what's currently sold in the stores (visible by looking at store.txt, except for the general store which is special-coded), so I'm not suggesting new items or removing existing items. That could probably be done here too though.

General Store
Everything in this store should be infinitely available. Cloaks and ammo should always be nonmagical, if they aren't already.

Armoury
Current loadout is fine, though I suggest adding basic cloaks as a generally-available item.

Weaponsmith
Current loadout is fine.

Temple
Should infinitely] have the first 2 prayer books, scrolls of Light
Should generally have the second 2 prayer books; potions of Heroism and scrolls of Holy Chant (both in moderately large stacks)
Should occasionally have all hafted weapons except for the Mace of Disruption.

Alchemist
Should infinitely have Word of Recall, Phase Door, Trap Detection, Satisfy Hunger
Should generally have everything else currently in its list.
Currently, I feel that Recharging and Magic Mapping are a bit too rare.

Magic Shop
Should infinitely have the first 2 spellbooks
Should generally have second 2 spellbooks, staves of Teleportation, Detect Evil; wands of Magic Missile, Stinking Cloud
Rest is good.

[jens]

I'd propose that no stores, except BM, should sell ego items.

If I want to look for good eq, I'd prefer to only have one store to look in...

[Jazerus]

3 could probably do with having a more predictable initial loadout of heavy vs. light weapons - it can be pretty frustrating to start up a melee character and see nothing lighter than a short sword on sale, rendering starting damage effectively halved due to lack of blows. The converse is true for mages, who (paradoxically) are better off with heavy weapons at first because they lack blows regardless of weapon choice. That situation might need some balancing itself, actually.

2 should probably also have guaranteed decent non-encumbering body armor.

Angband's randomness is fun in the dungeon, not so much in buying an initial loadout sometimes.

[jens]

How about guarantee of 1 each of 'Rapier' and 'Long Sword'? I believe that should cover most needs, but still leaves a possibility for a better weapon showing sometimes.

Armour does not feel that important to fix, since there are so many slots that there is always something to buy.

[Timo Pietilä]

3 could probably do with having a more predictable initial loadout of heavy vs. light weapons - it can be pretty frustrating to start up a melee character and see nothing lighter than a short sword on sale, rendering starting damage effectively halved due to lack of blows.

If you can't buy a light weapon go without a weapon. In current vanilla you have quite a few blows without weapon at all, and damage you miss is just the dice of the weapon (until you can enchant it).

[jens]

If you can't buy a light weapon go without a weapon. In current vanilla you have quite a few blows without weapon at all, and damage you miss is just the dice of the weapon (until you can enchant it).

Do you mean it's better for a warrior to go barehanded than use a heavy weapon at start?

[Timo Pietilä]

Do you mean it's better for a warrior to go barehanded than use a heavy weapon at start?

With high enough STR and blows you do nearly same damage barehanded than with heavy weapon. What you do is directly the "fight" -line in character sheet. For fun I just rolled a human warrior with 12 points put to DEX and 8 to STR and 4 to CON. That gives me two blows with short sword +3 to damage total of 14.2 points of damage / turn and without weapon 4 blows which is 12 damage.

You save the money for other gears that way, and daggers etc. are common in dungeon.

Anyway it isn't catastrophic to not being able to buy light weapon at the start of the game. With something like Ring of Dog +3 to dam in use melee without weapon at all can be better than with heavy weapon with low blows count. (+3 * 4 vs +3 * 2)

[EDIT] typo fixed

[dos350]

i heard some hoobaling about stat recover on lvl up , but that sucks alot,~

i suggest perm stat recover potion at #5

[dhegler]

I'd propose that no stores, except BM, should sell ego items.

If I want to look for good eq, I'd prefer to only have one store to look in...

I agree with this.

I would add that there is a min level of WoR scrolls of at least 2. I think in the general store I have found 1 before. Good enough to teleport down, but not back up.

Also, why were lanterns ever removed from the general store to begin with? They should be SOMETIMES available... Even the ones with "of brightness".

[Derakon]

Lanterns were presumably removed because torches provide radius-2 light now, so lanterns make a nice stepping stone for you to find in the dungeon. That follows the general theory of "it's more interesting to find gear than to buy it".

[the Invisible Stalker]

While I don't generally worry about realism in angband, does anyone really think

With high enough STR and blows you do nearly sam damage barehanded than with heavy weapon.

is reasonable?

[fizzix]

Here's my list

General store
Always have everything
WoR should be 4d2
Phase should be 10d2
ammo should be 40 each
no other changes.

Armory
Always have at least one of:
robe
soft leather armor
chain mail
hard leather cap
leather gloves
soft leather boots
wicker shield

no egos allowed

Weaponsmith
Always have at least one of:
dagger
rapier
long sword
spear
sling

everything else is occasional

Temple
Always have at least one of:
whip
mace

Always have:
2d2 of each book
4d2 heroism
1d2 remove curse
4d2 blessing

Usually have:
4d2 boldness
4d2 holy chant
4d2 light

Occasionally have:
other hafted weapons
6d6 heroism
6d6 blessing
6d6 holy chant

Alchemist
Always have:
4d2 Identify
4d2 trap location
4d2 detect invisible
4d2 door/stair location
1d2 restore life levels
4d2 CLW
4d2 CSW
4d2 CCW

Generally have
4d2 Resist heat
4d2 Resist cold
6d6 Phase
1d2 Neutralize poison
4d2 Treasure detection

Occasionally have:
everything else that's currently there.
larger stacks of potions. (6d6 or so)

Magic shop:
Always have
1d2 of each spell book
1d2 teleport
1d2 identify
1d2 detect evil
1d2 detect invisible

Generally have:
1d2 magic missile
1d2 stinking cloud
1d2 wonder

Occasionally have:
1d2 of everything else.

[Magnate]

I've said it before, but it needs saying in this thread too: stores must have something 100% of the time or 0% of the time. Anything else leads to scumming and requires a Buyout button.

That said, I don't mind what's stocked and what isn't. The existing setup isn't broken IMO, and it's unlikely to get worse whatever happens.

[takkaria]

I've said it before, but it needs saying in this thread too: stores must have something 100% of the time or 0% of the time. Anything else leads to scumming and requires a Buyout button.

That said, I don't mind what's stocked and what isn't. The existing setup isn't broken IMO, and it's unlikely to get worse whatever happens.

If every store has some infinite supply items, it removes the possibility of a buyout, surely?

[Magnate]

If every store has some infinite supply items, it removes the possibility of a buyout, surely?

Indeed it does, but it doesn't remove the possibility of scumming for turnover of the occasional items until you get the one you want. So you'd buy out all the non-infinite items, scum dl1 for X turns and come back ....