No Sell - I am convinced

[Therem Harth]

i dont need to try it , i know from reading about it that it sucks alot and i wouldnt like it!

With lines like that, I don't think your pleas of "no rage!" are going to avail you. Just sayin'.

As far as "no sell" gameplay goes... I will admit I haven't tried it. However, if it reduces the amount of time I spend scumming around for cash to buy necessary stuff at stores, then I'm all for it.

(Take my input with a grain of salt though; my *banding habits do not fit the normal profile.)

[Derakon]

please, instead of removing things from game and making it a mental attack on players to encourage certain styles of play, just keep the game good and maybe like chill out!

From where I stand, you're the one trying to remove things from the game. Specifically, you're trying to remove the no-selling option, which I happen to hold quite dearly.

Nobody's forcing you to play with no-selling; we're just saying that you can't make a compelling case for it being a bad idea, especially since you haven't tried it.

[dos350]

excuse me again~! i never said to remove it ,

but i certainly dont want to see it become the default option, nor can i understand why people would like it..

there really is no point to it at all...

as for scumming for gold etc, its not an issue, from wat i see u no sell fanatics are creating worst case gold fantasies to validate this new fad of no sell~~ please , no rage ,, eeeeeee!

[Magnate]

excuse me again~! i never said to remove it ,

but i certainly dont want to see it become the default option, nor can i understand why people would like it..

Well, you're in a tiny minority there. I don't have any inside info, but my money is firmly on takkaria making no_selling on by default in 3.3 ....

EDIT: ah no wait, I remember a conversation about this. It has to be off by default to avoid scaring/confusing new players. Never mind.

[Max Stats]

Well, you're in a tiny minority there.

Looks like it's time for a poll to settle this.

[Jazerus]

Well, you're in a tiny minority there. I don't have any inside info, but my money is firmly on takkaria making no_selling on by default in 3.3 ....

EDIT: ah no wait, I remember a conversation about this. It has to be off by default to avoid scaring/confusing new players. Never mind.

This could be circumvented with clever enough flavor text in the shops, I think. Something that could probably use updating is the description of no_sell in the birth options - as it stands, the one-line description doesn't mention that gold drops are boosted so it sounds like a ridiculous challenge option to someone who hasn't read up on it here.

[Magnate]

This could be circumvented with clever enough flavor text in the shops, I think. Something that could probably use updating is the description of no_sell in the birth options - as it stands, the one-line description doesn't mention that gold drops are boosted so it sounds like a ridiculous challenge option to someone who hasn't read up on it here.

There *is* help on this option, but it's only available during the birth process, not during the game (see ticket #1447).

[Bahman Rabii]

EDIT: ah no wait, I remember a conversation about this. It has to be off by default to avoid scaring/confusing new players. Never mind.

Huh? New players have no expectations at all about this, so why would they be "scared"?

[Jazerus]

Huh? New players have no expectations at all about this, so why would they be "scared"?

In the context of roguelikes, and video games in general, "selling" things for 0 gold doesn't make terribly much sense. Without some flavor text, perhaps portraying a no_sell selling interaction more as the shopkeeper identifying the item for you, but keeping it, then this probably would be persistently reported as a bug by confused new players.

[kaypy]

Huh? New players have no expectations at all about this, so why would they be "scared"?

New players have expectations from *other* games they have played. Since vendor trash is the default state for RPGs you can expect players to expect it.

Something that could probably use updating is the description of no_sell in the birth options

"Find more gold instead of selling items" would fit on one line there

There *is* help on this option, but it's only available during the birth process, not during the game (see ticket #1447).

It seems to work in the nightlies...

[ChodTheWacko]

In the context of roguelikes, and video games in general, "selling" things for 0 gold doesn't make terribly much sense. Without some flavor text, perhaps portraying a no_sell selling interaction more as the shopkeeper identifying the item for you, but keeping it, then this probably would be persistently reported as a bug by confused new players.

There is no need to show '0 gold' at all.
No need to even call it selling - it could be 'sacrifice' or donate.

'k' doesn't actually destroy objects (it's just hidden, squelch style), or I'd actually suggest that the 'k' command should identify the object before destroying it.

- Frank

[Bahman Rabii]

There is no need to show '0 gold' at all.
No need to even call it selling - it could be 'sacrifice' or donate.

'k' doesn't actually destroy objects (it's just hidden, squelch style), or I'd actually suggest that the 'k' command should identify the object before destroying it.

- Frank

Why not just remove the sell command? Identifying has already gotten really easy and store identify is not really a must.

Then there would be no source of confusion.

[Timo Pietilä]

There is no need to show '0 gold' at all.
No need to even call it selling - it could be 'sacrifice' or donate.

"Donate" would be good.

If you think modern shops I don't think many of them do trades. They just sell, they do not buy.

[Magnate]

Why not just remove the sell command? Identifying has already gotten really easy and store identify is not really a must.

Then there would be no source of confusion.

I suspect that's where we'll end up, but we can't do that while no_selling remains an option. (The original issue here was whether the option should default to on or off.)

IMO new players to Angband are unlikely to be entirely new to the concept of role-playing, and will expect to be able to sell items in shops because that's what most role-playing scenarios involve. As someone else said, we'll get a lot of spurious bug reports if we default it to on - unless we also change the store code to do something other than offer 0 gold (e.g. shopkeeper says "I do not buy items from my customers") - but that causes problems for the sell-to-ID mechanic ... and so on. Nothing is ever straightforward.

[jens]

So when rune based ID has been working in the game for a while, and we decide that we don't need the ID by store mechanic any more, we can turn the stores to real stores that only sell to you :-)