YACD - cut me down to size

[SSK]

Timo is right - at the same time the resistance effect was introduced, the basic chances of item destruction were lowered a bit (IIRC). Personally I'd support increasing them slightly again, but not to the previous levels.

I actually hadn't noticed my things burning up less and my potions still get shattered. I always *hated* this effect and had been assuming all along it was mitigated by permanent and temporary resistance to the extent I would specifically cast extra resistance to prevent inventory loss even though I had tons of hit points. I specifically like having permanent and temporary resistance on board make inventory damage extremely unlikely--it REALLY gives a bump to mage spell of resistance [mages need a boost anyway] and activation of Colluin makes it much more valuable...

[Capital-T-Tim]

And I die...

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=11390

Didn't have resist-Disenchantment when I ran into The Tarrasque, and didn't realize how deadly that could be. So close to Morgoth... and now so far away

[Timo Pietilä]

And I die...

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=11390

Didn't have resist-Disenchantment when I ran into The Tarrasque, and didn't realize how deadly that could be. So close to Morgoth... and now so far away

Well, that sucks.

At least you died to perhaps deadliest monster into game (without immunities).

Too much speed. Speed values over +30 don't count much.

[SSK]

And I die...

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=11390

Didn't have resist-Disenchantment when I ran into The Tarrasque, and didn't realize how deadly that could be. So close to Morgoth... and now so far away

OUCH. Dying with Feanor. How awful. Don't think I've EVER found Feanor, Cubragol, or Bladeturner (in fact I don't think I ever found a suit of PDSM). Reminds me to be more careful with my char who doesn't have chaos covered permanently Clevel 47, Dlevel 72, although I have a weapon swap for it.

@Timo and the other veterans: How is the diminishing return on speed being handled now? In some earlier versions it was close to linear up through +36 --has that been further toned down?

[Nick]

Join the died-to-The-Tarrasque club - there's plenty of us in it.

[Derakon]

Here's the positive half of the speed table. Each number indicates how much energy you get per game turn -- thus, at normal speed, you get one turn per 10 game turns.

    /* Norm */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
    /* F+10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
    /* F+20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
    /* F+30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
    /* F+40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
    /* F+50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
    /* F+60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
    /* F+70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
    /* Fast */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,

As you can see, after you hit +26 speed, each additional speed point is at best half as good as it used to be -- that's a pretty precipitous dropoff. +36 speed is only 11% faster than +26 speed, not the 38% you'd get if speed had linear benefits.

[Timo Pietilä]

As you can see, after you hit +26 speed, each additional speed point is at best half as good as it used to be -- that's a pretty precipitous dropoff. +36 speed is only 11% faster than +26 speed, not the 38% you'd get if speed had linear benefits.

And energy difference between +30 and +40 is just 38/42 =~ 10% increase. +30 is important speed because there are monsters that move at speed +30 but anything above that you are better off using damage increase gears (or something else, whatever you happen to need).

[SSK]

And energy difference between +30 and +40 is just 38/42 =~ 10% increase. +30 is important speed because there are monsters that move at speed +30 but anything above that you are better off using damage increase gears (or something else, whatever you happen to need).

Ah this is what I remember--it looks to me like +34 speed is the sweet spot because that's where you get 40 energy/turn, but I didn't realize it falls off linearity at +26.

Wasn't there a change way back when fractional speed went into place? I seem to remember that in the old game before fractional if you were +4 (=40) and a monster was +3 (=30), you moved twice to his once, which is why if you managed to get +4 speed in the old game you were pretty much invincible (which was boring).

But now if you have 40 energy and the monster has 30, you only move 4 times to his 3 right?

[Philip]

Join the died-to-The-Tarrasque club - there's plenty of us in it.

Indeed. Once I had both of the IMFIRE and IMCOLD(plus rdisenchant) rings and Vilya as well and I spotted the Tarrasque. I thought, get rid of now and I won't have to later. Of course I forgot to put on Nenya and was blasted with cold. After that I thought: I forgot to put on Nenya? Whatever, I'll just phase and put it on. Phased and got blasted again.

[SSK]

But I feel like I have a real chance with this character! I've been paying much close attention to my resistances; I have badass speed; I just cut down The Mouth of Sauron. I'm getting pretty cocky! And also a little bored, because things have gotten grindy. Cocky + bored: that means I'm in danger of being stupid and dying.
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=11390

So I think I have just reached this point myself: I just offed Feagwath and Gabriel, Thuringwethil, Tselakus are dead.

Just found the shield of the Haradrim. That means total carnage with Aule (almost 1000/round v dragons). I'm thinking I should carry it and wield only for a big fight. But maybe I should wear hammerhand too and go for total aggravation. I've got perma speed +25 and a rod of speed. I have all resistances and all sustains covered except Chaos.

Paladin
CLevel only 48, 994 HP

Consumables:
! Life 2
! *healing* 5 (can carry Gondor too)
! healing over 23
! restore mana 20
? Banishment 5 (can carry Celeborn too)
? mass banishment 3
? Rune of protection 2
? Tel level 21

Hmm. Should I try to be a hero and go for Morgy below CLevel 50 and without offing the top level uniques, or is that totally crazy because they will just be summoned later by Sauron or Morgy anyway? Last time I won was long enough ago I'm sure the endgame must be different...

[Derakon]

If you had four or so ?Destruction and some reliable source of Teleport Other (I don't know your class) then in your shoes I'd go for it. Carry a big stack of CCW though, to augment your other healing supplies.

[SSK]

If you had four or so ?Destruction and some reliable source of Teleport Other (I don't know your class) then in your shoes I'd go for it. Carry a big stack of CCW though, to augment your other healing supplies.

Oh yeah I forgot yes:
3 ?Destruction

I had 5 but ran into a few nasties casting big fireballs at me :-( Class is Paladin so I can cast it (5% fail though). And of course Teleport other @5% fail...

Hmm. I am tempted to go for this...
Really you would bother carrying a big stack of CCW in addition to 23 !healing?

Edit
[Ha! I am just cleaning up the stuff dropped in the spiral vault where I killed Feagwath and just found Umbar--looks like total aggravation with the Umbar, Haradrim, Hammerhand set is now a real possibility].

[Capital-T-Tim]

Here's the positive half of the speed table. Each number indicates how much energy you get per game turn -- thus, at normal speed, you get one turn per 10 game turns.

    /* Norm */    10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,
    /* F+10 */    20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29,
    /* F+20 */    30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 36, 37, 37,
    /* F+30 */    38, 38, 39, 39, 40, 40, 40, 41, 41, 41,
    /* F+40 */    42, 42, 42, 43, 43, 43, 44, 44, 44, 44,
    /* F+50 */    45, 45, 45, 45, 45, 46, 46, 46, 46, 46,
    /* F+60 */    47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 48, 48, 48, 48, 48,
    /* F+70 */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,
    /* Fast */    49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49, 49,

As you can see, after you hit +26 speed, each additional speed point is at best half as good as it used to be -- that's a pretty precipitous dropoff. +36 speed is only 11% faster than +26 speed, not the 38% you'd get if speed had linear benefits.

That's good to know, thanks for pointing it out!

I've been impressed with the game's improved UI: displaying dungeon depth in feet and level; detailed descriptions of item abilities; monster descriptions that include the strength of their attacks (though I'm confused why this is only present in some descriptions?).

Seems like speed could do with some UI tuning as well. Maybe if it displayed a percentage-of-normal-speed indicator alongside the +26, or whatever?

Speed: -10 (50%)
Speed: +10 (200%)
Speed: +20 (280%)

[SSK]

Seems like speed could do with some UI tuning as well. Maybe if it displayed a percentage-of-normal-speed indicator alongside the +26, or whatever?

Speed: -10 (50%)
Speed: +10 (200%)
Speed: +20 (280%)

That is a fabulous idea IMHO. Except I would like to see it expressed thus:

Speed: +15 (25 energy/game turn).
Speed: +34 (40 energy/game turn).

I really think the metric most useful to the player is energy/game turn rather than speed relative to "normal". You need energy/turn to tell how fast you are relative to various monsters, which is what counts...

So 40 energy/turn is 2X as fast as a monster who moves "quickly", 1.33X faster than a monster that moves "very quickly" and on equal footing with those few monsters that move "incredibly quickly".

And by the way this clarifies for me you need to get to +34 speed (=40 energy) to fight Morgy so he can't double-move mana storm you. Wait--does Morgy's +30 speed mean he also only gets 38 energy/game turn (as in the posted table), or do monsters get full 40 energy from +30 speed? Timo I think your +30 speed threshold is based on monsters' +30 yielding 38 energy to match yours right?

[Derakon]

Monsters use the same speed table that the player does.