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Except that with multiple pvals you have to learn which pval rune is associated with which modifier runes...
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Bumpitty bump!
I just discarded DSM of Permanence. The 'b' option was 'squelch all excellent but not splendid'. I then picked up DSM of Stealth, with a 'b' option of 'squelch all non-artifacts'.
That's just silly.Comment
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Regardless of how you personally value Stealth vs. Permanence, Permanence is not obvious on wield and thus qualifies as "excellent", while Stealth is obvious and thus qualifies as "splendid".Comment
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The whole set of pseudo categories is broken IMO, and therefore so is quality squelch at the moment. I don't know how far away Eddie is from releasing a testable version of rune-based ID, but if it's on 3.4's timescale (i.e. next four months or so), it's not really worth trying to improve the current squelching setup significantly, because it will need a rewrite when rune-based ID happens anyway."Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The BeatlesComment
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I know the theory; I was just saying that in this case it's silly. Armours of permanence are beyond splendid.
Out of interest, how/why is 'stealth' immediately obvious through use? Shouldn't you have to tiptoe past a gang of orcs that would have woken up had you not been wearing that armour before the item was IDed, in the same way that you need to be lightninged before IDing a Blah of Resist Lightning? And would *all* stats and exp need to come under attack before a Blah of Permanence was IDed as such? I don't recall ever seeing a 'You feel stealthier!' message.
Has anyone considered a squelch by value feature?
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One of the reasons I think the current quality squelch/ID-by-use is broken is because quite a few decisions were made on the basis of ease of implementation, rather than sticking to a vision. So stealth being immediately obvious is one of those (along with See Invisible and others). Personally I think stealth should be in OFID_TIMED - obvious after a certain time has passed (like regen / slow digestion)."Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The BeatlesComment
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The point of excellent vs splendid is for squelch-immediately-after-wield. If you want better squelching, you should design the egos to support better squelch. Making stealth obvious was a plus for being able to do elvenkind armor, and for defender weapons before SI was made obvious. Robes are a separate class for a reason.
I asked on numerous occasions for permanence to be made splendid. E.g. give it a light boost. Or SI now that SI is obvious. Whatever.
I believe the real problem is the belief by some of the old guard that squelch is a bandaid, so they refuse to make game design solutions for the sole purpose of improving squelch. IMO this is backwards, of course.
ID-after-time needs to go away completely. Takkaria agreed in an old email, and I hope he hasn't changed his mind. You should learn those things when something is affected, e.g. aggravate when you see something wake up. Also when you something *not* wake up. Slow digestion any time you go from full to not full, as with notetaking that determines the item 100%. Etc.
ID-after-time is currently broken btw. Save your game, exit, and reload to make it happen fast. See the first EFG comment in identify.c on my github thing I mentioned in the dev thread. It's also horrible design because there is a single time-since-wield variable rather than storing for each object, so you can wield a ring of slow digestion and leave it on forever and never learn it if you are constantly wielding other items in and out for id.
P.S. Stealth was made obvious not out of any principle, but because you could see it change on the 'C' screen. I used to have to check that by hand in 3.0 days.Comment
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The ability to fine-tune which egos are squelched for particular categories (with DSM as a separate category from Body Armor) would definitely be appreciated; as it stands, the definition of excellent vs. splendid is arbitrary, game mechanics reasons aside. I'd be wary about implementing a change toward something like squelch-by-value since selling price is still an arbitrary value that may not bear any relation to the actual utility of an item for a particular character at a particular time.Comment
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If we're going to further subdivide squelching with the current system, it should be to move towards a per-ego squelch system (and, ideally, a per-item-type system). E.g. I squelch a Mace of Slay Orc, and I get the following options:
* Squelch just this item
* Squelch all Maces of Slay Orc
* Squelch all Blunt Weapons of Slay Orc
* Squelch all Weapons of Slay Orc
* Squelch all ego weapons without stat boosts
* Squelch all non-artifact weaponsComment
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Yes, it does. It'd be nice to have that integrated into V, if possible.Comment
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Maybe it has been mentionned before (I do not think it has), but have you checked the old ToME 2.x squelcher interface?
This glorious implementation is very neat, even though it might be a bit complex. The in-game interface allows you to create logical expressions to test pretty much anything : character class, level, 'pseudo' category, item name, etc etc. The settings are then dumped in a xml file.
A carefully crafted squelcher can be used for all kinds of characters, and can be shared with other people. Those not wanting to use the in-game menu can just write their xml code.
Just mentionning it.
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Ugh, ToME 2's interface is certainly powerful, but it's hideously painful to use too. It's only really usable if you get a pre-set squelch file from someone else, and then if you want to tweak it you're still boned.
No game interface should require hand-editing XML.Comment
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