New Monster Nest/Pit rarity

[PowerDiver]

This is a concern of mine as well, and their depth and rarity were the parameters I was least sure of. These might need to be tweaked.

Another fix would be to introduce more nests at around the same depth, to reduce the relative frequency of the undead nests.

I think there needs to be a design decision made about nests. How fast are the monsters supposed to get out? I don't have an answer, and this isn't a complaint, but I think the issue needs to be addressed.

Perhaps KILL_WALL monsters should not be allowed at all. Perhaps their frequency should be increased. Perhaps the moat wall should have long segments of permanent rock. I don't have a clue. I am just posing options. I think it would be better to have some purpose to aim for, compared to just mucking with frequencies and seeing what happens.

[Derakon]

In my experience, as long as you're aware of the graveyard, you can stay away from it and not have the monsters come after you. This probably requires a bigger detection radius than just ESP though. In other word, the presence of a graveyard means "tread carefully, and don't teleport", not "get off the level ASAP". That's only if you get too close and everything starts chasing you. From my reading of monster.txt, "too close" is 20 tiles, the awareness range of said reavers.

[pampl]

I think there needs to be a design decision made about nests. How fast are the monsters supposed to get out? I don't have an answer, and this isn't a complaint, but I think the issue needs to be addressed.

Perhaps KILL_WALL monsters should not be allowed at all. Perhaps their frequency should be increased. Perhaps the moat wall should have long segments of permanent rock. I don't have a clue. I am just posing options. I think it would be better to have some purpose to aim for, compared to just mucking with frequencies and seeing what happens.

I like Andrew Doull's take on it (or at least my interpretation of it) - players should be able to see the structure before encountering the monsters, rather than fighting through a bunch of monsters before finding a moat and an empty square room. I guess that mainly applies to the early levels before ESP and detection can reveal a rectangular block of monsters.

[buzzkill]

Rather then simply changing the contents of pits, I'd like to see the dungeon generation evolve (slowly) as you get deeper (starting beyond DL50). Less room and corridors more cavernous areas to accommodate the giant sized monsters your likely to encounter.

If changing contents is the only real option, I'd vote for a few varied powerful non-uniques paired with a bunch of non-pushover escorts. Why does everything have to share the same symbol.

Orc pits are great for securing basic consumables, but they do seem out of character after a certain point.

[LostTemplar]

I like FA umber hulk pits, also vortex (storm of unmagic) pits are nice.

[fyonn]

In my experience, as long as you're aware of the graveyard, you can stay away from it and not have the monsters come after you. This probably requires a bigger detection radius than just ESP though. In other word, the presence of a graveyard means "tread carefully, and don't teleport", not "get off the level ASAP". That's only if you get too close and everything starts chasing you. From my reading of monster.txt, "too close" is 20 tiles, the awareness range of said reavers.

I agree. I don't consider myself to be that good a player, but graveyards have never made me skip the level. if I'm feeling weak and the graveyard particularly strong, I'll just avoid it, otherwise I'll often make a plan to try to deal with it. I try and approach from the right side, pull out a few creatures at a time. get the pass-wall types out (arch-liches I often find very hard work). try not to annoy the reavers too much, pelt the inside with ball spells for the druj's etcetc.

a graveyard is a scary thing, and typically the focus of the level, but it's not an instant "run away" affair.

dave

[Djabanete]

I can just imagine it now -- the Morgoth Pit!

(More plausibly, imagine an Umber Hulk pit, or an Ethereal Hound pit, or an Archlich pit...)

Angband gives you plenty of ways to get away from stuff... heart attacks are good for you

[Pete Mack]

Orc pits are exciting at DL80 if you aren't strong enough to kill anything else.

DL54 is the cutoff where snagas become worth killing, as stat potion drops come into depth. IMO orc pits are mostly a waste *before* DL54, not after, but probably that's just me. You should make sure that the depth where orc pits stop showing up is not in the late 50s or else there may be a couple of DLs that turn into a new semi-official stat gain depth.

It isn't just you--I like wiping out orcs at dl60+. Otherwise, what's the use of those staffs of dispel evil?

As for scary pits--you haven't lived until you try to take on an NPP 0.4.1 Hydra pit.

[Timo Pietilä]

It isn't just you--I like wiping out orcs at dl60+. Otherwise, what's the use of those staffs of dispel evil?

As for scary pits--you haven't lived until you try to take on an NPP 0.4.1 Hydra pit.

For those that don't know what those pits are like, think Kavlax & Lernaean hydra offsprings that move faster than either of those.

[Djabanete]

And even if you do manage to kill the hydras, I suppose there's the additional hazard of drowning in gold coins?

[fizzix]

Out of curiousity, does anyone bother clearing out animal nests for the treasure?

I tried once but gave up because of the Qs.

[CunningGabe]

Out of curiousity, does anyone bother clearing out animal nests for the treasure?

I tried once but gave up because of the Qs.

I have to admit, it bothers me that Qs are animals. A quivering pile of flesh counts as an animal?

I cleared out an animal nest recently, but it was partially because an Umber Hulk chewed through the walls and the animal pit mostly came to me.

[Timo Pietilä]

Out of curiousity, does anyone bother clearing out animal nests for the treasure?

I tried once but gave up because of the Qs.

I clear them if there is something that I could possibly use. Q:s force me to do some trick shots and lots of digging to get in correct position, but I don't care.

[Timo Pietilä]

I have to admit, it bothers me that Qs are animals. A quivering pile of flesh counts as an animal?

I cleared out an animal nest recently, but it was partially because an Umber Hulk chewed through the walls and the animal pit mostly came to me.

Those things are dangerous at the point where Umber Hulks don't run away from you. Greater Basilisks and Dracolisks and lots of nasty hounds.

[LostTemplar]

I like pits, kill them all just for exp.