Quiver at home?

[fyonn]

as the title says, any chance of equivalent functionality for having a quiver at home, ie any 99 ammo items as a single item. I do sometimes collect nice ammo for a shooter type I'm not using. ie if I come across nice xbow bolts, I'll stash them at home just in case I come across a nice xbow.

I appreciate that the equip function doesn't work here, but it could perhaps be a special case? or would it be unbalancing?

[Derakon]

I suspect that if something like that were to be done, it'd be as part of a general overhaul of ammo-inventory interaction that would automatically quiver-ize ammo regardless of location. After all, currently the quiver is only supposed to act as a special subset of the character's standard inventory; the fact that you have to wield ammo to the quiver to take advantage of the inventory compression is a bit of a hack.

Then again, I've also argued that 99 ammo/inventory slot is too generous. The main goal of the quiver was to make small ammo stacks useful, not to increase your total ammo carrying capacity. If you assume that one generated stack of ammo is one inventory slot's worth, then you shouldn't get more than 40 or so units of ammo in one slot. If that were done then there'd be less point in adding a quiver to the home.

[PowerDiver]

I don't see a quiver happening at home, due to UI issues. I have argued in favor of an unlimited home, which would solve the problem a different way. Perhaps I will implement it and distribute a patch some day.

[EpicMan]

+1 for unlimited home

Home is to store stuff you can't/won't carry with you at the moment, since you have to go back to town to pick it up it doesn't make you more powerful.

And it makes sense your house can hold a lot moree stuff than you.

[Max Stats]

+1 for unlimited home

Home is to store stuff you can't/won't carry with you at the moment, since you have to go back to town to pick it up it doesn't make you more powerful.

And it makes sense your house can hold a lot moree stuff than you.

Yeah, what he said.

[Timo Pietilä]

Yeah, what he said.

Reality is poor base for gameplay. There is a reason for limited home space: you are forced to think what is important what is not.

One of the driving forces of Angband is hard choices you need to do. Take away source of one of those and you make game worse. Easier, but worse. Easier to get bored on, easier to forget, less sustained game.

[PowerDiver]

Reality is poor base for gameplay. There is a reason for limited home space: you are forced to think what is important what is not.

That's good if you can make a rational decision. If Magnate succeeds in his quest to make everything incomparable things get dicey. If you can only store 2 items per wield slot at home, and you find 4 incomparable items per wield slot, then you have to throw away 1 per slot somewhat arbitrarily. Maybe this is good, and maybe it is not. I do not see any source of a clear argument either way.

[d_m]

I've always liked the idea of an unlimited home, and I think it benefits several kinds of players:

1. new players who want to hang onto stuff they aren't sure about
2. collector/completion players
3. players who play without selling

While I agree with people who want to remove the "carry loot back to town" step from Angband, a lot of people (including myself) enjoy doing this, even when selling is reduced/disabled. Leaving artifacts in the dungeon always pains me. The Mathom house is another solution to this problem, I guess, but I don't think it's significantly better than the infini-home idea.

As the dev who has done the most to ruin the inventory management game (via the quiver, which I'm hoping to "fix") I am sensitive to the idea that removing tough inventory choices via infinite slots is bad. That said, I don't think that the town experience needs to mirror the dungeon experience in this way.

Just my two cents anyway.

[Timo Pietilä]

As the dev who has done the most to ruin the inventory management game (via the quiver, which I'm hoping to "fix") I am sensitive to the idea that removing tough inventory choices via infinite slots is bad. That said, I don't think that the town experience needs to mirror the dungeon experience in this way.

In this case town experience and dungeon experience are not separate issues. You plan for Morgoth by collecting items in home. It is a storage for dungeon exploration. Also your reaction to findings depend of what you have, not what you are carrying right that moment.

It does also affect shopping minigame. If you have infinite home and enough money you can just plain buy stores empty of anything you might need sometimes and dump the contents to your home "just in case". All restoration potions, all CCW, all phase doors, ammunition whatever, it doesn't matter.

Infinite home should mean no stores. Then it makes some sense.

[Magnate]

Infinite home should mean no stores. Then it makes some sense.

Timo has this right. I would not support an infinite (or simply larger) home unless it was available only with the no_stores option.

I rather like the idea that I am on a quest to make everything incomparable. It's not actually quite right, since I have no problem with e.g. shield of Resist Fire being dominated by one of Resistance, and numerous other instances of same (cloak of Stealth -> cloak of Aman etc.). But I think it's right to strive to make comparison decisions more challenging, since that fits with the general intention of making everything slightly more difficult.

[will_asher]

I agree an endless home doesn't work with stores because of what Timo said. but an endless home without stores wouldn't work either (at least for me) because I would be recalling back to town three times as often to stash things in the home because I can't rely on the stores to provide anything.
I think the solution is a Mathom house. Even a Mathom house where you could remove artifacts once left there, at least you wouldn't be collecting endless consuables from stores 'just in case' like Timo said because you can only put artifacts in a Mathom house.

[Derakon]

I agree an endless home doesn't work with stores because of what Timo said. but an endless home without stores wouldn't work either (at least for me) because I would be recalling back to town three times as often to stash things in the home because I can't rely on the stores to provide anything.

Really? Generally speaking the consumables I store in my home are ones that I want to save for later (big heals, banishment, destruction); everything else gets carried with me. The only other things I'd store in the home would be gear that I might want to use in the future but can't use right now, which doesn't happen that often.

[pampl]

It does also affect shopping minigame. If you have infinite home and enough money you can just plain buy stores empty of anything you might need sometimes and dump the contents to your home "just in case". All restoration potions, all CCW, all phase doors, ammunition whatever, it doesn't matter.

I guess I'm not sure what's supposed to be bad about that. People buying that stuff and storing it instead of scumming town for it each time they need it sounds like an improvement to me. If you want that stuff to be hard to get than it shouldn't be regularly offered in town at all, rather than being regularly offered but requiring occasional scumming.

edit: as a side note, I'm in favor of restore potions being dungeon only, which works much better with an infinite home.

[Timo Pietilä]

Really? Generally speaking the consumables I store in my home are ones that I want to save for later (big heals, banishment, destruction); everything else gets carried with me. The only other things I'd store in the home would be gear that I might want to use in the future but can't use right now, which doesn't happen that often.

Not now, because you are thinking about limited home space. With unlimited space I bet you would save everything you think you would possibly need ever, and that is quite a lot of items. A lot more than there is space. Spellbooks, restoration potions, all possibly useful items with some combo, weapons with ESP, amulets, stat-rings etc.

[Timo Pietilä]

I guess I'm not sure what's supposed to be bad about that. People buying that stuff and storing it instead of scumming town for it each time they need it sounds like an improvement to me. If you want that stuff to be hard to get than it shouldn't be regularly offered in town at all, rather than being regularly offered but requiring occasional scumming.

I don't do level scumming. I'd prefer that made impossible or at least inconvenient beyond tolerance by for some method. That way people would be forced to play with reduced stats sometimes. You can play with reduced stats, just don't let them get too low. If you get them too low then you have something to learn.