RNG is teasing a returning player

[Alden]

When I was in my teens in the mid-late 90s, the only PC I had access to was a Pentium 133 running windows 98. A great step up from the ol'386, but not exactly a gaming rig, even for the time. Roguelikes were naturally my salvation, as even this meagre system played them perfectly. Played a lot of Vanilla, Pern/ToME, and ADOM, but never got a winner.

Then college, grad school, and a couple years of work got in the way and I sort of forgot about Angband... until now, when I embarked on one more detour through the academic world (in my 2nd year of law school) & found myself in need of a procrastination tool for my laptop!

At the start of the new year I downloaded Vanilla 3.2 and have rolled about 3 characters since, all hitting the early parts of the midgame (CLevel 27-30) before dying to one stupid mistake or another.

Last night, my newest PC, a high-elf rogue, comes across Wormtongue on DL9 and swiftly dispatches him. For some odd reason, Saruman's lackey was kitted out with the Boots of Feänor. I'm convinced that this is a massive tease by the RNG and have a sinking feeling that I'm going to get careless and blow this guy up far too prematurely.

More ironically, I have precious little experience playing a rogue, though I imagine the +15spd is going to be really, really good for him. Any survival hints from the vets out there? Specifically, how should a rogue approach the midgame? I'd like to see this guy hit CL35-40 if I can manage it.

In any event, I'm glad to be back in the scene and am delighted that development is still so active for this beloved classic

[Derakon]

In my experience, rogues are jacks of all trades. Good melee, good missiles, adequate spellcasting (but bad offensive spellcasting). They aren't great at any one thing though. Carry a good bow or crossbow and some nice ammo to use for softening up big targets; lesser foes can be mowed down in melee especially since you have +15 speed. Just don't get cocky.

And welcome back!

[Timo Pietilä]

Last night, my newest PC, a high-elf rogue, comes across Wormtongue on DL9 and swiftly dispatches him. For some odd reason, Saruman's lackey was kitted out with the Boots of Feänor. I'm convinced that this is a massive tease by the RNG and have a sinking feeling that I'm going to get careless and blow this guy up far too prematurely.

Probably. Feanor is great find for any depth and for any char. I think it is the only item in game that has no competition whatsoever. If you have it sooner or later you will wear it, no matter what your other gear looks like.

More ironically, I have precious little experience playing a rogue, though I imagine the +15spd is going to be really, really good for him. Any survival hints from the vets out there? Specifically, how should a rogue approach the midgame? I'd like to see this guy hit CL35-40 if I can manage it.

Rogue is basically a stealthy warrior with few utility spells. Play it like warrior, not like mage. Use detections, but otherwise you can pretty much forget the spells until much later. Books 2, 6 and 9 are pretty much useless for rogue. Resistances, satisfy hunger, ID etc. are useful later when you have high INT, but when you get them they are pretty useless for a long time.

Combination of ESP and stealth allows you to kill entire groups of monsters without waking them up. Use items with stealth boost. Rogue is the best char to pick their fights when they want and where they want, so use that ability. High speed helps in that too because monsters have less turns to wake up.

[Pete Mack]

A Rogue can "float[1] like a butterfly[2] and sting[3] like a bee[4]."
It's a fun class for diving--you can pick your fights carefully, but play in a pretty good weight class when you decide to fight.

[1] dive/explore
[2] mage
[3] melee
[4] warrior/ranger

[scud]

Feanor is great find for any depth and for any char. I think it is the only item in game that has no competition whatsoever. If you have it sooner or later you will wear it, no matter what your other gear looks like.

Right now I can't work it into my wardrobe at all. As soon as I take off my pair of Dal-i-thalons I get terribly confused, and any rejig opens me up to shards or nether or poison or...

I think the only thing that can save me is Mediator.

[Timo Pietilä]

Right now I can't work it into my wardrobe at all. As soon as I take off my pair of Dal-i-thalons I get terribly confused, and any rejig opens me up to shards or nether or poison or...

I think the only thing that can save me is Mediator.

I wouldn't worry about nether or shards. Poison is a bit bigger problem, but OTOH Dal-i-Thalion doesn't have poison resist either. Confusion is a problem without Dal-i-Thalion, but that problem will go away. Usually +10 speed, nexus & haste trumps confusion any day.

What do you have?

[scud]

I wouldn't worry about nether or shards … What do you have?

Shards terrify me! I've killed 88 uniques including Huan. The two known live uniques are Carcharoth and The Emperor Q (who I don't think I've ever managed to pin down). Are none of the remaining uniques major shard breathers?

My HE Ranger has just picked up the Mail of Caspanion, which gives both poison and confusion but is otherwise very average. He's also about to leave the Shield of Gil-galad on the floor.

Currently wielding/wearing:
Great Hammer of Aule (nexus, fear, damage!)
Long Bow of Bard
Ring of Speed +12
Ring of Tulkas (fear)
Amulet of the Magi <+2> (blindness)
Arkenstone of Thrain (dark, holds life)
Chaos DSM of Permanence (poison, chaos, disenchantment, sustains all, holds life)
Elven Cloak of the Magi <+3> (ESP)
Shield of Thorin (sound, chaos, fear)
Cap of Thranduil (blindness, ESP)
Gloves Cambeleg
Boots Dal-i-thalion (nether, confusion)

Looking at the above Thranduil is completely redundant; even the +2 INT is surplus.

The current gear gives me everything but shards and regen. I can probably get by without S.Dig + Feath :-)

At home I have...

Ringil (fear, regen, speed)

Amulet of Trickery (poison, nexus, +4 speed)
Amulet of Ingwe (conf)
Necklace of the Dwarves (fear, regen)
Evenstar (dark, nether, sustain INT/WIS/CON, holds life)

Arvedui (shards, nexus)
Isildur (sound, nexus, conf)
Soulkeeper (nexus, nether, chaos, fear, holds life)
Himring (poison, nether, chaos)

Elven Cloak of Luthien (+4 INT/speed but otherwise useless)
Elven Cloak of the Magi <+4, +2> (holds life)

Shield of Celegorm (dark, blindness)
Shield of Preservation (nether, disenchantment, bodykeeping, holds life)
Shield of Anarion (sustains all, no hold life)

Cap of Celebrimbor (shards, disenchantment)
Helm of Dor-Lomin (fear, ESP)

Boots of Fearnor (nexus, speed)

Wearing Celebrimbor rather than Thranduil would fix the shards hole.

Alternatively I could keep Thranduil and swap amulets from Magi to Trickery for the speed boost.

My four sources of rConf are:
Dal-i-thalion (-10 speed v Fearnor)
Caspanion (otherwise rubbish versus the Chaos DSM of Permanence)
Isildur (see Caspanion)
Ingwe (do-able?)

My base speed at the moment is +20. Trickery would take that to +24 and give me nexus, which would allow me to swap Aule for Ringil.

So is a base speed of +34 with Ringil 'better' than a base speed of +24 with Aule?

[scud]

I wouldn't worry about nether

I know several Gelugons who would beg to differ!

[Philip]

I would definetly use Ringil, which along with Feanor can make you stop caring about speed. Maybe Celebrimbor and use Caspanion, leaving you without nether resist, sustain all or hold life but with a lot of extra speed. With my suggestion, also use the first usefull ring you find instead of speed. Also, I think that with Huan dead all you have to do is avoid the big shard breathers and that's about it, so I suggest Dor-Lomin and Cloak of Luthien or even perhaps Thranduil and Ingwe, letting you keep your DSM and leaving your hole as shard, nether and you would have something like 37 speed.

[Philip]

As I see you are worried about nether maybe you could wear Soulkeeper and Celebrimbor, keep your amulet and use Feanor and Ringil, which AFAIK doesn't leave resist holes. Could you please check on that?

[Derakon]

Remember you can always carry !Heroism to cover fear resistance. The +to-hit doesn't hurt either.

[scud]

As I see you are worried about nether maybe you could wear Soulkeeper and Celebrimbor, keep your amulet and use Feanor and Ringil, which AFAIK doesn't leave resist holes. Could you please check on that?

Soulkeeper/Celebrimbor/Feanor/Ringil leave me without rPois, pBlnd, pConf and, funnily enough, rElec. The amulet of the Magi takes care of the blindness.

My rBlnds are that Amulet, shield of Celegorm and cap of Thranduil.

My rConfs are Ingwe, Isildur/Caspanion, and Dal=i-ithalion.

My rPois are Trickery and Himring/Caspanion/DSM.

Tis a jigsaw.

I've got only two of Sound and Shard. Is sound ignorable?

Remember you can always carry !Heroism to cover fear resistance. The +to-hit doesn't hurt either.

*looks at spell books*

It appears I'm carrying around Tenser's, without having attempted a single spell therein.

[Timo Pietilä]

Shards terrify me! I've killed 88 uniques including Huan. The two known live uniques are Carcharoth and The Emperor Q (who I don't think I've ever managed to pin down). Are none of the remaining uniques major shard breathers?

So is a base speed of +34 with Ringil 'better' than a base speed of +24 with Aule?

In order, yes (none are) and yes. Especially because 12 of that 24 comes from RoS.

Ringil, Feanor, Ingwe, Dor-Lomin and two as big to_dam rings you can find beats what you have now.


Problem with that combo is blindness, but you should have 100% saving throw, which means only monsters that hit to blind are any threat, and those are very rare (Gabriel, Cat Lord, few low-level others).

or

Ringil, Feanor, Isildur, Celebrimbor and two as big to_dam rings

This combo leaves your CON to 18/190, which is bad, and without rBlindness.

Or

Aule, RoS, Feanor, Caspanion, Celebrimbor and one as big to_dam ring you can find

(reading you message you probably are playing nightly editions where magi gives rBlind)

Your mistake is to rely on covering all resistances, and not look at what is important, and those are stats and covering only critical resistances.

[Timo Pietilä]

I know several Gelugons who would beg to differ!

Gelugons breathe shard, not nether. Shard is not a problem, you can't rely on the resistance anyway (6/7 damage gets thru in worst case), and side-effect is harmless. Same with nether.

[Timo Pietilä]

Soulkeeper/Celebrimbor/Feanor/Ringil leave me without rPois, pBlnd, pConf and, funnily enough, rElec. The amulet of the Magi takes care of the blindness.

My rBlnds are that Amulet, shield of Celegorm and cap of Thranduil.

My rConfs are Ingwe, Isildur/Caspanion, and Dal=i-ithalion.

My rPois are Trickery and Himring/Caspanion/DSM.

Tis a jigsaw.

I've got only two of Sound and Shard. Is sound ignorable?

No. Sound, plasma, gravity and impact stun, which can be fatal if you get that in bad situation. Sound resistance should prevent that stunning (unless this has been changed in nightly editions).

*looks at spell books*

It appears I'm carrying around Tenser's, without having attempted a single spell therein.

100% saving throw makes you immune to fear. No need to have resistance to it.