Poison: an anomaly in elements

[Derakon]

But all damage formulas for breath weapons are current HP / 3, even for the high elements. Changing that just for poison really creates incongruency.

[Timo Pietilä]

But all damage formulas for breath weapons are current HP / 3, even for the high elements. Changing that just for poison really creates incongruency.

IIRC most if not all of the high elements breath weapon HP divisor is something else than 3. 3 is true only for basic elements.
(checking...)
From constants.h:

#define BR_NETH_MAX				550
#define BR_NETH_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_NETH_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)		(((dam) * 6) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_LIGHT_MAX				400
#define BR_LIGHT_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_LIGHT_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 4) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_DARK_MAX				400
#define BR_DARK_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_DARK_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 4) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_CONF_MAX				400
#define BR_CONF_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_CONF_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 5) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_SOUN_MAX				500
#define BR_SOUN_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_SOUN_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 5) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_CHAO_MAX				500
#define BR_CHAO_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_CHAO_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 6) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_DISE_MAX				500
#define BR_DISE_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_DISE_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 6) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_NEXU_MAX				400
#define BR_NEXU_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_NEXU_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 6) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_TIME_MAX				150
#define BR_TIME_DIVISOR				3
/* no resist */

#define BR_INER_MAX				200
#define BR_INER_DIVISOR				6
/* no resist */

#define BR_GRAV_MAX				200
#define BR_GRAV_DIVISOR				3
/* no resist */

#define BR_SHAR_MAX				500
#define BR_SHAR_DIVISOR				6
#define RES_SHAR_ADJ(dam, dam_aspect)           (((dam) * 6) / (damcalc(1, 6, dam_aspect) + 6))

#define BR_PLAS_MAX				150
#define BR_PLAS_DIVISOR				6
/* no resist */

#define BR_FORC_MAX				200
#define BR_FORC_DIVISOR				6

Looks like only time and gravity has 3 as divisor, all others have 6 as divisor.

[Derakon]

Oh, my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

[buzzkill]

Hey let's give poison more nasty side effects than just HP reduction. That's kinda lame. We could have repeated vomiting, slowing, stunning, hallucination, fear (and more). Just pick one at random and have it last a few turns.

[Sirridan]

I was thinking of making a separate gas 'element', which would represent the noxious, corrosive type gas (not from acid, but more like enzymes, bases, other chemicals). Then monsters like Bronze dragons breathe confusion gas, which gas resist blocks the damage, where confusion resist blocks the confusion. Green dragons do poison gas, etc.

Also I agree with buzzkill, poison is lame, it's only worrisome at low levels because 1 hp has much more meaning then, and at high levels it only matters because without resistance, you get instakilled.

[dos350]

i was kill once by greater baslisk i think i learn about poison then, eek!

please no change!!~

if psn is on res ego or elfkind watever is too easy!!

please is good as is, why so much changings?

[Lord Tom]

Speaking of which, has someone seen Pete writing recently? Has he disappeared?

eek!

Coincidence??!!

[TJS]

The higher the poison counter the more damage it should do each turn. I'd rather poison was dangerous that way than yet another breath attack instant death.

[buzzkill]

The higher the poison counter the more damage it should do each turn. I'd rather poison was dangerous that way than yet another breath attack instant death.

...and mortal poisoning. I hope you have the antidote.

[Magnate]

...and mortal poisoning. I hope you have the antidote.

Having just sorted out the confusion over confusion (it's now just a status effect, from which rConf protects you - it's no longer a breath type), the issue of poison is really bugging me. It's the last remaining element which is both a type of damage and a status effect. All the other status effects (blindness, fear, confusion, paralysis, stunning, cuts) are not damage types, but poison still is.

But I don't really see any way of changing it. Removing poison breath seems unnecessary just to neaten this up, and splitting off the status effect seems pointless.

[Antoine]

The higher the poison counter the more damage it should do each turn. I'd rather poison was dangerous that way than yet another breath attack instant death.

+1 - poison should be a gradual killer (and C*W should not reduce poisoning)

A.

[TJS]

Having just sorted out the confusion over confusion (it's now just a status effect, from which rConf protects you - it's no longer a breath type), the issue of poison is really bugging me. It's the last remaining element which is both a type of damage and a status effect. All the other status effects (blindness, fear, confusion, paralysis, stunning, cuts) are not damage types, but poison still is.

But I don't really see any way of changing it. Removing poison breath seems unnecessary just to neaten this up, and splitting off the status effect seems pointless.

Gas could be the damage type with poison being the associated status effect. rGas reduces damage from gas breaths and prevents being poisoned from them. rPoison prevents being poisoned from any source (perhaps you could introduce more poison bolts from monsters as well as stinking cloud).

Have confusion breaths been renamed or just removed? The breath could be called turbulence or something.

[ewert]

You could add diseases (temporary stat drains that recover over time for example), and have a resist maladies or something, that protects from poison effects and diseases. Then have gas as the "poison" dmg type. Then you could have gas breathers do different effects ... even confusion for bronze dragons. Breathe gas, cause confusion. Gas would just be a damage type then ...

But gas is ... not really a damaging descriptive word in itself. So it could remain named poison ...

[Magnate]

Gas could be the damage type with poison being the associated status effect. rGas reduces damage from gas breaths and prevents being poisoned from them. rPoison prevents being poisoned from any source (perhaps you could introduce more poison bolts from monsters as well as stinking cloud).

Have confusion breaths been renamed or just removed? The breath could be called turbulence or something.

It's been removed for now, but of course we're a long way from 3.3, so some sort of "bronze breath" could well return in its place.

I will see what takk thinks about splitting resistance to gas damage from that to poison status ...

[Nomad]

The higher the poison counter the more damage it should do each turn. I'd rather poison was dangerous that way than yet another breath attack instant death.

There could easily be different levels of poisoning, the way that there is with cut damage. (Which would actually help the "slow poison" spell seem more meaningful, if it visibly bumped you up from a level from "badly poisoned" to just plain "poisoned" instead of just chipping an unknown amount off the unseen counter.)

Gas could be the damage type with poison being the associated status effect. rGas reduces damage from gas breaths and prevents being poisoned from them. rPoison prevents being poisoned from any source (perhaps you could introduce more poison bolts from monsters as well as stinking cloud).

How about calling the attack type 'venom', like the ego weapon? Venom attack, poison status effect.