V with a Gooey... please!!

[pav]

For game balance, detection and magic mapping should have an area of effect independent of the screen size. I once proposed this to Robert Ruehlmann when he still was maintainer; the reason he rejected the proposal was that he felt that this would only work if there's also an automated message informing you when you leave tha area where you have detected. (A position I disagree with, BTW).

I have played a variant (forgot the name) where they implemented fixed diameter circle detection, and it was a massive pain. You could never be sure if you're currently in detected area or not. The messages popping up to tell you you're on border were massively annoying. And the visual aid was a poisonously pink background color of dungeon.

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.

[Mondkalb]

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.

A red, green or whatever floor dot?

[Hugo]

I have played a variant (forgot the name) where they implemented fixed diameter circle detection, and it was a massive pain. You could never be sure if you're currently in detected area or not. The messages popping up to tell you you're on border were massively annoying. And the visual aid was a poisonously pink background color of dungeon.

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.

I'm not convinced that this problem even needs a solution. There are argments against it from both gameplay and from realism.

I always play V with the "center_player" option on. That means that I have no inidication when I leave a detected terrain. This just means that I have to take mental notes of what part of the level I have detected, and if I forget I can choose to either play safe and spend another scroll, or take my chance. My usual strategy is to cast all detection spells directly after each other. Especially the detection of doors leaves a quite visible indication of the affected area, so I can use this to also remember where I have detected traps and monsters. (And if I use magic mapping, I just have to remember to subtract a few grid lines to get the "safe" area for the other detection spells).

Since I believe that gameplay shoould come before realism, I have saved the argument from realism for last, but here it is - suppose that you were actually in a damp and unlit dungeon, swamped with hostile creatues - would you relaly expect to see a red line or a color change on the floor, or to hear a booming voice from above, to warn you that you are now leaving the area you have detected? I know that I'd make sure to carefully keep track of that myself!!

[andrewdoull]

I have played a variant (forgot the name) where they implemented fixed diameter circle detection, and it was a massive pain. You could never be sure if you're currently in detected area or not. The messages popping up to tell you you're on border were massively annoying. And the visual aid was a poisonously pink background color of dungeon.

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.

So you don't think the Unangband solution is workable?

It uses a grey 'x' in unknown areas that do not have detect traps cast on them (and detect monsters, if you set an option). You can also set an alert message, if required, but I agree with you that they are annoying.

Andrew

[pav]

So you don't think the Unangband solution is workable?

It might have been older T.o.M.E. or something, I don't really remember where I seen it. I do remember pink.

It uses a grey 'x' in unknown areas that do not have detect traps cast on them.

Can we get something more subtle than an avalanche of grey ikses? The colored floor dot like was suggested, but only on the area border, sounds best to me.

Does not fly in variants with terrains, I'm afraid thou.

[andrewdoull]

It might have been older T.o.M.E. or something, I don't really remember where I seen it. I do remember pink.

The default David Gervais 32x32 tiles to use purple as the background colour, (255,0,255) as opposed to black. I copied this for the .bmp 32x32 clean up I did, and there was for a while, a purplish hue to a tile set I was distributing for a while with Unangband until I fixed up the colour tables.

Can we get something more subtle than an avalanche of grey ikses? The colored floor dot like was suggested, but only on the area border, sounds best to me.

Does not fly in variants with terrains, I'm afraid thou.

In the windows fonts I use, the 'x's connect, so that it looks more like a sea of waves, than kisses. YMMV.

Andrew

[pav]

The default David Gervais 32x32 tiles to use purple as the background colour, (255,0,255) as opposed to black. I copied this for the .bmp 32x32 clean up I did, and there was for a while, a purplish hue to a tile set I was distributing for a while with Unangband until I fixed up the colour tables.

No, I am sure it was in ASCII version. No tiles.

[Timo Pietilä]

colored dots OK.

Can we get something more subtle than an avalanche of grey ikses? The colored floor dot like was suggested, but only on the area border, sounds best to me.

Colored dots would be OK for me, if you add disturbance to stop running at that spot.

[Big Al]

FAangband has circular detection areas of fixed size. It gives you an (optional) message whenever you are about to leave the trap-detection zone, as well as a flag at the bottom of the screen (beside 'hungry', etc.) that indicates if you are currently in a region where you have detected for traps. When casting the spell, it briefly shows the size of the area that you detected in a yellow circle.

I'm agreed that preferably, detection should not be tied to screen size. Might be interesting to have the radius of detection increase with the level of spellcasters, so the spell improves with time like a lot of the other spells.

[Mondkalb]

Both features would be nice to have.

[takkaria]

I have played a variant (forgot the name) where they implemented fixed diameter circle detection, and it was a massive pain. You could never be sure if you're currently in detected area or not. The messages popping up to tell you you're on border were massively annoying. And the visual aid was a poisonously pink background color of dungeon.

Now this could be implemented real nice with tiles, where you would draw a thin red line between the tiles. But in ASCII, I'm yet to see a workable solution.

I believe you want something like the DTrap indicator on the status line at the bottom of the screen. That's an easy way to tell if you're in a trap-detected area, at least.

[andrewdoull]

I believe you want something like the DTrap indicator on the status line at the bottom of the screen. That's an easy way to tell if you're in a trap-detected area, at least.

Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you when you're about to walk out of it in an intuitive fashion.

[pav]

Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you when you're about to walk out of it in an intuitive fashion.

Timo nailed it - colored floor dot as a border, and a disturbance (not a message) when you run over it. And a status line indicator when in detected area. Can I have that with some chilli?

[Nick]

Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you when you're about to walk out of it in an intuitive fashion.

See Big Al's post above about FA. The current FA behaviour is to give a warning when the player moves to a grid which is adjacent to an undetected grid which could hold a trap (ie floor or grass).

[Daniel Fishman]

Unfortunately, it doesn't tell you when you're about to walk out of it in an intuitive fashion.

The ToME one does if you run (.) out of it, but not if you walk. ToME also has the radius detection increasing with spellcaster level mentioned above.