Extra racial/class abilities

[nullfame]

How often does anyone even play humans/elves/half-elves, except perhaps out of sheer boredom, or because all other victory conditions have been exhausted?

I always let RNG choose my race/class combo with the exception of I never play the same race or class two consecutive games (unless I died really early).

[d_m]

I play humans once in a while for the quick leveling up. Maybe it could be improved more so humans only need 80% xp to level up. Sort of the "fast learner" thing you see in a lot of rpg's

The Simarillion supports this, at least with regard to the first humans.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

I never let the RNG pick anything... That I can avoid.

d_m, those weren't 'humans'...those would be closer to uber-Dunedain. That is: take Dunedain stats, add 3 to *each*, and probably a few other goodies. Pretty much like, the Firstborn elves are to High Elves, as High Elves are to regular Elves. For the noble ones anyway. The Firstborn, both men and elves, is basically similar to Greek/Roman Golden Age people...that is to say, a couple cuts better than even the Silver Age heroes, who were in turn still a couple cuts above the 'present day' population.

Of course, given that, and the fact that those first-born couldn't take out Morgoth...how the heck are we supposed to do it?

On the point about quick learning...we've already got them with the lowest XP requirements, and it's not really enough to help. ESPECIALLY given the divers' argument that level 50's not necessary. I don't see lowering them a bit more, as being a drawing card.

Also: as I noted before, most racial specials typically become basically valueless after a while. I don't have a problem with this...but it suggests we should keep that pattern. Allowing humans to level out to 55 or 60 gives an advantage in the endgame, if you want to go slow...but this is pretty much the *wrong* time to give an advantage. Lowering the XP requirements gives an advantage for an extended period, well beyond the level where most others do...especially for divers. They keep a decent level as they drop, so they have a bit more margin for error.

[Jungle_Boy]

I rather like the idea of changing things at the other end: allow humans to advance to level 60.

I support making changes at the high end. The fact that a level 50 mage and a level 50 warrior have exactly the same stats is just wrong.

[zaimoni]

Bless improves your to-hit rate, which means you're less likely to miss and, IIRC, more likely to deal critical hits when you do hit.

Right. It's all a matter of whether the time cost is expected to actually end the combat faster.

If you have a reliable source of bless, there's almost always a dead turn when you can cast it before the fight starts, and there's no real reason not to, unless you have more important buffing spells to cast, like haste or resistance.

In my playstyle, the fight starts the instant the monster is in (cross)bow range: dead turns generally don't exist in the dungeon before adequate detection (telepathy or a stack of Rods of Detection).

[Antoine]

I support making changes at the high end. The fact that a level 50 mage and a level 50 warrior have exactly the same stats is just wrong.

In my view, equipment stat bonuses should be limited to +10 on each stat. (Thus, only a character who can get to 18/120 CON with race/class bonuses would be able to reach 18/220 CON through equipment.)

A.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

I support making changes at the high end. The fact that a level 50 mage and a level 50 warrior have exactly the same stats is just wrong.

But that wouldn't be the effect of allowing a human to go to level 55 or 60; the human level 55 warrior and the human level 55 mage would still look the same (accepting your statement as accurate for now).

Such a change is also neither class-neutral nor style-neutral, and it would be desirable, IMO, to make them so. Class-neutral fails because I think the caster guilds would gain considerably more than the fighting guilds...a lot more mana means several more turns between needing to restore mana, for example, in larger late-game fights, and/or the ability to just use regen because you keep such a large mana cushion even after a pretty good-sized fight. Style-neutral fails because the diver doesn't really expect to hit level 50, much less continue on to 60.