Warning - nightlies unbalanced from r2008

[Magnate]

I know some people like to play the bleeding edge nightly versions, so I'm just reminding those people that trunk is in active development and is likely to be a bit unbalanced for a while. As part of my obj-power rebalancing for 3.1.3 I've just committed a bunch of changes to armour, making heavy armours more attractive and re-working DSMs (which are no longer identical apart from the breath, and can have certain ego types). (It was ticket #951, in case anyone cared.)

So far, so good ... BUT: these changes have not yet been balanced against non-armour items. The minor consequence of this is that armour might seem oddly expensive compared with weapons and devices. The major consequence of this is that powerful artifact armours like Soulkeeper and Isildur might turn into truly sickening randart weapons. You have been warned.

Please use this thread to report any armour-related issues in the new nightlies.

Thanks.

[Derakon]

Do you have any plans to force randart weapons to be based on standart weapons, and vice versa?

[Sirridan]

Do you have any plans to force randart weapons to be based on standart weapons, and vice versa?

I hope not! The variance you get with them all mixed is interesting

[Magnate]

I hope not! The variance you get with them all mixed is interesting

Indeed. No, my plan is to make further adjustments to power to ensure that top-end weapons have similar ratings to top-end body armours.

From my limited testing so far, the problem I feared appears to be self-limiting: it seems to be almost impossible to generate a weapon with a power rating over 400 (Ringil is 330, Deathwreaker 298), and equally impossible to generate items for any other slot, so the big body armours (Soulkeeper, Isildur, Celeborn, Razorback, Mediator and of course Bladeturner) tend to turn back into body armours.

I have also cranked up the ratings for extra blows and shots, so these should get slightly rarer, but I think there is more work to do here.

[Sirridan]

Haven't randart tested yet, but the improvements in AC make the heavier armors worth wearing.

I'm at around 37th level I think, and I've been playing rather suicidally, and the extra boost from the armor has kept me alive I think. Trolls and orcs are jokes right now, I'm nearing the soft cap of 150 (122 atm) with just one artifact armor.

I'll do a few rand-art games after this one dies eventually (I'm betting poison breath)

[Magnate]

Haven't randart tested yet, but the improvements in AC make the heavier armors worth wearing.

I'm at around 37th level I think, and I've been playing rather suicidally, and the extra boost from the armor has kept me alive I think. Trolls and orcs are jokes right now, I'm nearing the soft cap of 150 (122 atm) with just one artifact armor.

I'll do a few rand-art games after this one dies eventually (I'm betting poison breath)

Glad the armours are more useful. Where did you get a cap of 150 from? As far as I can tell from the code, AC remains linearly useful at any level - the hit equation is

if randint0(chance) >= (ac * 3 / 4)

... since Morgoth's "chance" level is 360, the difference between AC of 150 and 200 (or 250 etc.) is material. IIUC.

Oh, one other side effect of the current changes to trunk: launchers and ammo have got even more expensive. IMO this is actually proper, but I'm expecting howls of outrage anyway.

[miyazaki]

Oh, one other side effect of the current changes to trunk: launchers and ammo have got even more expensive. IMO this is actually proper, but I'm expecting howls of outrage anyway.

I am playing this right now with a dunedin warrior and couldn't afford to buy a launcher at all. The flip side of the this is that I am around dlvl 20 and have found 4 or 5 ego launchers that have lined my pocket with gold. Also, I sold my chain mail for 3000 gold before entering the dungeon at all and it set me up nicely with all sorts of consumables!

Bring on no selling!

[Derakon]

Or at the very least a much more asymmetrical buy price/sell price ratio...

[Magnate]

I am playing this right now with a dunedin warrior and couldn't afford to buy a launcher at all. The flip side of the this is that I am around dlvl 20 and have found 4 or 5 ego launchers that have lined my pocket with gold. Also, I sold my chain mail for 3000 gold before entering the dungeon at all and it set me up nicely with all sorts of consumables!

Bring on no selling!

Ah, yes. I've been playing with no starting kit and 500 gold, which is a different proposition. I think only warriors get starting chainmail, so I think that might need rebalancing.

4 or 5 ego launchers by cl20?? Blimey. I'm lucky if I find one. I don't have a problem with people not being able to afford a launcher on their first trip though.

[miyazaki]

Ah, yes. I've been playing with no starting kit and 500 gold, which is a different proposition. I think only warriors get starting chainmail, so I think that might need rebalancing.

4 or 5 ego launchers by cl20?? Blimey. I'm lucky if I find one. I don't have a problem with people not being able to afford a launcher on their first trip though.

Yeah, I think the launcher prices are finally approaching their value. I wondered if my finds were luck or if drop distribution was changed. Luck I guess. I have found two sets of ego ammo as well. Maybe something to keep an eye on?

[Twilight]

... Where did you get a cap of 150 from? As far as I can tell from the code, AC remains linearly useful at any level - the hit equation is

if randint0(chance) >= (ac * 3 / 4)[SNIP]

My guess is the post was referring to the damage reducing part of AC that is capped at 150 (/250) of melee/ranged damage if nothing has changed recently.

Edit: IIRC it is only normal physical attack damage that can get reduced. Not confusion melee-attacks etc.

[Sirridan]

The 150 cap may be from ignorance or a misunderstanding, I thought at 150 it topped out at reducing chance to hit, while higher ac beyond that just reduced damage. If I'm wrong then by all means ignore that part of the post, but having such AC at those levels adds a decision whether or not to equip that leather armor with resist-cold, or keep the chainmail... More decisions make it more interesting.

[Magnate]

The 150 cap may be from ignorance or a misunderstanding, I thought at 150 it topped out at reducing chance to hit, while higher ac beyond that just reduced damage. If I'm wrong then by all means ignore that part of the post, but having such AC at those levels adds a decision whether or not to equip that leather armor with resist-cold, or keep the chainmail... More decisions make it more interesting.

Ah .... right. You actually got it backwards: there's no cap on the reduction in chance to hit, but 150 is the max for reducing damage (reduces 60% of normal damage - HURT or SHATTER but not other attack types). AC above 150 is still worth having for avoidance, but doesn't reduce damage any further.

[Sirridan]

Blue Dragon Scale Mail of Speed (+7)

I like where this is going.

[Jungle_Boy]

Ah .... right. You actually got it backwards: there's no cap on the reduction in chance to hit, but 150 is the max for reducing damage (reduces 60% of normal damage - HURT or SHATTER but not other attack types). AC above 150 is still worth having for avoidance, but doesn't reduce damage any further.

I haven't looked in the code or anything but I thought there was a cap on the reduction of chance to hit since I think monsters and players alike have a guaranteed 5% hit chance.