Easiest Win?

[Diogenes]

Thanks everyone for your answers and replies. As for me, my favorite "dive" character is the HT Warrior - although it has bad stealth, he is hard to stop with that many HP. Not that I'm a lot of a diver: my current Lv 27 has Dlev 16 (and might stay there for a while).

I'll certainly try the HE Ranger.

Cheers,

Peter.

PS: Didn't quite know how to define Easiest win, so I started from "Surest Win". Perhaps "Lowest Level" might be a factor, but maybe someone has recorded a level 35 character who took out Morgoth...

[fyonn]

I don't know about easiest win. I've only won once and it was with a hobbit mage. short on HP!

I've alwats shied away from HE's and dunedan due to the XP penalty. when my current character (lvl44 human rogue on dlvl 49) is done, I might try a ranger next. not sure I've done a ranger before

[camlost]

Fu Manchu (Steamband) and Saruman (Quickband) have both been defeated below level 35, but I am not aware of a Morgoth kill in any variant...

[Atriel]

Somebody already beat Heng (or as Entro?) at clvl 49 and NOT being an android... The serpent is much worse than Morgoth, dunno if he killed him.

[Nick]

Here are some nice examples:
Vanilla
FA
NPP - Cliff Stamp has *3* 44 or under winners in NPP

[Magnate]

Thanks everyone for your answers and replies. As for me, my favorite "dive" character is the HT Warrior - although it has bad stealth, he is hard to stop with that many HP. Not that I'm a lot of a diver: my current Lv 27 has Dlev 16 (and might stay there for a while).

The big drawback with HTs is not their stealth but their crappy saving throw - you end up blinded and/or confused too often, so diving becomes impossible without rblind/rconf. The huge hp and regen are great, I admit, but for diving they're not as useful as dwarves (who have almost as many hp and have rblind to boot).

CC

[Matthias]

Winning with less than level50 is very possible and has been done in most variants. It's just a side effect of selective/diving play. You don't kill the high uniques because that would cost potions you don't have.
Now, the ones that Nick linked are that taken to an extreme. Those require a very good diver a bit of madness and usually one or two nice early finds.

I have one problem with low level/low turncount winners and that is that your playstyle changes more and more into endgame scumming, running from more or less everything and only selecting the most rewarding battles. I have several low level winners as well, but my favorite winner is level 50. No idea.. sometimes killing more just feels better

[Diogenes]

Here are some nice examples:
Vanilla
FA
NPP - Cliff Stamp has *3* 44 or under winners in NPP

Wow... (appreciative whistling) - a level 42 Gnome Mage and a Winner! With Ringil even - that one's a mere legend for me.

Cheers, Peter.

[Irashtar]

Ah, that'd be Ghost Naturalist in Steamband.

I read A phantom nudist in a steambath.

[Daven_26d1]

Since I am really trying to get my first win, maybe I should start playing with one of these stereotypical best combinations instead of that kobold paladin I like.. I think I'd go with dwarf priest, I hate the horrible psuedo id of a ranger.

Dwarf priests are actually a little harder to get off the ground than some of the other "easy win" (as if!) classes... they just get very powerful later on, so you get a good chance of beating the end stages.

For a first "commendable effort" rather than a win, you should maybe try a half-troll warrior, or a dunadan paladin. (The paladin can be a bit tricksy to get started due to XP penalty, but much easier than the dwarf priest). Once you can get about dlvl 40 without sweating, you'll have built up a good base of tricks (not to mention monster memory and familiarity with some arts & egos) that will let you expand from there.

[Magnate]

Dwarf priests are actually a little harder to get off the ground than some of the other "easy win" (as if!) classes... they just get very powerful later on, so you get a good chance of beating the end stages.

For a first "commendable effort" rather than a win, you should maybe try a half-troll warrior, or a dunadan paladin. (The paladin can be a bit tricksy to get started due to XP penalty, but much easier than the dwarf priest). Once you can get about dlvl 40 without sweating, you'll have built up a good base of tricks (not to mention monster memory and familiarity with some arts & egos) that will let you expand from there.

I'm going to disagree (respectfully, of course) and give an alternative view here. I agree that Dunedain Paladins are a good combination to start with, but as you point out they gain levels (and therefore hp) slowly because of the XP penalty. OTOH a Dwarf Priest is IMO almost as easy to play, and much quicker to level. They have good hp, good saving throws, reasonable melee (don't forget Bless) and innate rblind - what's not to like? Plus you get OoD within a half hour or so of play, and suddenly life gets much easier.

HT warrior on the other hand, as I said earlier in this thread, is crippled by awful saving throws. Huge hp, regen and great melee, but after 1000' you'll be blinded or confused so often it will get almost unplayable. It depends on your preferences I guess, but I find it way too irritating unless I'm lucky with early ego hats for rblind and/or rconf. (I guess it's not so bad in V where you can make enough money to burn ~20 CCW every trip, but it's much harder in O where both money and potions are scarce.)

Just my 2p.

CC

[zaimoni]

In V, Dunadan paladins do not need to gain levels quickly. The XP penalty for them is, frankly, meaningless in practice. They are one of the few race/class combinations that can manage the bounce to DL3 on the first trip without a missile weapon at all. Half-Troll Fighter is also good for that, but their inferior save does mean that a Floating eye can gaze them to death.

As implied in my other comments elsewhere about V3.0.9: if 16+ STR can be made without compromising key stats and enough gold is available to purchase a decent ammunition stock (need at least short bow in the Weaponsmiths, but General Store guarantees both 99 arrows and 99 bolts), then the start has a good chance of being reasonably easy even for a melee-impaired character such as a Dwarf Priest.

[Magnate]

In V, Dunadan paladins do not need to gain levels quickly. The XP penalty for them is, frankly, meaningless in practice.

I'd agree with you there.

They are one of the few race/class combinations that can manage the bounce to DL3 on the first trip without a missile weapon at all. Half-Troll Fighter is also good for that, but their inferior save does mean that a Floating eye can gaze them to death.

DL3?? Are we playing the same game? Most characters can get to DL10 on their first trip with a bit of care. A DuPa is limited only by inventory, food and light and can easily reach DL20 (depending on how unlucky you are with invisibles).

Ah, wait a minute, you said without a missile weapon. Yes, I guess my "most characters can get to DL10" assumes a missile weapon in most cases. Even so, most warriors, rogues and paladins can do it without. And of course mages have their own infinite missiles. So it's really only priests and rangers that have a problem, and a ranger without a missile weapon is a bit pointless.

That's why dwarf priests are so good: dwarves are pretty good at melee, so they have fewer problems than other priests. Half-troll priests are also safe on their first trip (the awful save doesn't really bite until later on).

As implied in my other comments elsewhere about V3.0.9: if 16+ STR can be made without compromising key stats and enough gold is available to purchase a decent ammunition stock (need at least short bow in the Weaponsmiths, but General Store guarantees both 99 arrows and 99 bolts), then the start has a good chance of being reasonably easy even for a melee-impaired character such as a Dwarf Priest.

Agreed. Missile weapons are very helpful at the start - even a sling is better than nothing.

CC

[Daven_26d1]

So it's really only priests and rangers that have a problem, and a ranger without a missile weapon is a bit pointless.

I don't know; I can handle a DL10 1st dive with a pts-based HE ranger about half the time. I know this because my Ironman tactic is generally to hoard arrows/phase doors waiting for a OOD unique in the hope of a good drop.

That said, the no1 cause of death for my rangers is that I think I hear "sword spinning woodsman" not "shooter from the shadows" when I think of their class. So don't listen to me!

[zaimoni]

DL3?? Are we playing the same game? Most characters can get to DL10 on their first trip with a bit of care. A DuPa is limited only by inventory, food and light and can easily reach DL20 (depending on how unlucky you are with invisibles).

DL 3 is when money (wands) become in-depth.

Ah, wait a minute, you said without a missile weapon. Yes, I guess my "most characters can get to DL10" assumes a missile weapon in most cases. Even so, most warriors, rogues and paladins can do it without. And of course mages have their own infinite missiles. So it's really only priests and rangers that have a problem, and a ranger without a missile weapon is a bit pointless.

I generally wait until I have a properly enchanted missile weapon (+9,+9) before risking orc pits/DL 5. Emotionally, I feel using a longbow as primary weapon at melee range is "unstylistic", but V game mechanics don't penalize this.

My current dwarf priestess is CL24/DL19 without permanent See Invisible...even with hit-and-run she's starting to have problems, she doesn't have a fast enough regeneration rate to use the spell as background.