Dungeon Suggestion

[Hariolor]

I have been trying different race/class combos lately, and have been having a lot of fun with Gnome Warriors...point being that I have decided classes without reliable methods of detecting doors/stairs in the early game spend way too many turns looking for >.

I propose that a good way to reduce wasted time in the shallow levels, and possibly assist the learning curve for newbies (being that dorking around in the low levels teaches bad habits) would be to make the levels start rather small and get progressively larger up to about DL~25, when they could hit full size.

I think this sort of idea has been touched on in threads discussing new map generation and room types for the next big release, but I don't recall this line of reasoning being introduced.

Just a thought.

[PowerDiver]

I propose that a good way to reduce wasted time in the shallow levels [...] up to about DL~25,

How much time do you spend there? It's easy enough to get to DL 25 in a couple of hours if you just go down instead of clearing levels.

[Zikke]

How much time do you spend there? It's easy enough to get to DL 25 in a couple of hours if you just go down instead of clearing levels.

This applies only to advanced players that know all of the monsters and gear and know when and how to fight, and when to leave.

[PowerDiver]

This applies only to advanced players that know all of the monsters and gear and know when and how to fight, and when to leave.

The OP wanted to speed up the game, presumably for advanced players. My question is why any change is needed to accomplish that.

The best way to learn the monster list is to dive aggressively. That style is not just for advanced players. It is for anyone who is willing to lose chars in the short run in an attempt to learn how to do better in the long run.

[thapper]

I thought the OP's point was that he spent to much time looking for stairs since he didn't have any way to detect them, not that he spent too much time to clear levels. It has happened to me as well when there's not enough scrolls/staves of door/stair detection to buy or find but I don't think making levels small is a good solution.

[Zikke]

I also don't think making smaller levels is a good idea (since it would throw off balance and reduce the amount of loot and xp you can get per level).

Perhaps making stairs slightly more numerous at very low level? At least until you get a basic detection spell (i.e. dlvl 5 or something).

[Matthias]

Warriors have gotten the short end of the stick a lot lately. The reduce in items has hit them the worst. I've had ironmen at floor 25 without finding a single item to detect traps. And yes, finding stairs is a major problem for them

[Hariolor]

Hey, someone looking out for the warriors.

To clarify - I almost never clear levels - even at very low depths. The exception being a superb feeling below DL 15 or so, assuming I am well-stocked on consumables at the time and have obtained some reliable detects.

My goal, especially with warriors, is to get down to ~DL20 as fast as humanly possible. I avoid anything that isn't directly in my path, and don't care much about objects, as anything generated on DL 1-20 will be better when generated on DL 20+. I'm usually CL 10-15 by the time I get down there, but it often takes hours as the RNG is not always generous with the availability of detect doors/stairs.

While I *could* scum for gold on my first trip down and then buy 20 scrolls of detect doors/stairs, that feels a bit ham-handed and unfair.

Whether by upping the number of >, or by reducing the size of early levels, I feel that it should be easier to dive through the early levels for those who so choose. The general concensus I've seen is that hanging out in the early levels is:

1) boring
2) time-consuming
3) unrewarding
4) bad-habit-teaching

I'd think warriors, of all classes, should be able to get down to the lower levels faster. For classes/players who are more fragile/neurotic, there's nothing wrong with scumming back up and down the first ten levels if one feels going deeper is too challenging or whatever.

I'm simply of the opinion that the first 15 levels are really a "welcome to the dungeon" and could be much smaller while still teaching the same lessons to the really green newcomers. DL 15-25 could be (and probably are) skipped by more advanced players, but I feel by then the appearance of hounds and stronger orcs means that most players will need/want to slow down by then to start properly exploring.

[buzzkill]

If you don't like looking for the stairs, spend some GP and get some scrolls. What's the problem. I kind of enjoy, the early game, before things get all serious.

[PowerDiver]

I'd think warriors, of all classes, should be able to get down to the lower levels faster.

I just finished testing, got to DL25 with a warrior with no detection in about 2 hours playing time not counting breaks, and it felt significantly slower than is typical for me. I don't see the problem.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10145

[fizzix]

I just finished testing, got to DL25 with a warrior with no detection in about 2 hours playing time not counting breaks, and it felt significantly slower than is typical for me. I don't see the problem.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10145

2 hours sounds about right for me too. I think the problem is that perhaps 2 hours is too long? Maybe we should be aiming for 30 minutes?

[Derakon]

We could have an option to start at character level 20 and dungeon level 20, with no extra equipment. That way people who are experienced with the game can dive straight into the action, without otherwise having the game give them an advantage.

[Matthias]

(...) significantly slower than is typical for me. I don't see the problem.

wait what? shouldn't you have said something like "I see the problem" if it is significantly slower?