Ring of Escaping

[dhegler]

Why is this squelched as worthless in 3.1.2? It actually fetches (or used to fetch) a decent amount of gold b/c of its speed bonus... I thought I used to get 7000 for it, which is more than lot so unsquelched items...

[Marble Dice]

This is certainly a bug, Escaping is one of the most useful low level rings, and the most salable. It gets squelched because it's value is set to 0 in the object.txt file, even though rings don't use that value field for cost.

[Marble Dice]

Accidentally posted before I could finish. There are some inconsistencies in object.txt (useful might just mean has no bad side effects):

Item                Value   Useful   Squelched

!Dragon Breath          0   Yes      Yes
=Dog                    0   Maybe    No
=Mouse                  0   Maybe    No
"Teleportation        ~10   Maybe    Yes
=Reckless Attacks    ~100   Maybe    No
=Open Wounds         ~250   Maybe    No
=Teleportation      ~1000   Yes      Yes
=Escaping           ~3000   Yes      Yes

My recommendations would be:
(EDIT: This is no longer my recommendation)

• Redefine object_is_worthless() to check the actual price of the item - by power or kind as necessary.
• Give !DragonBreath a value in object.txt

This would have the following effects:

• !DragonBreath could be sold, and would not be squelched as worthless.
• =Dog, =Mouse would be squelched as worthless (no change to item cost).
• "Tele, =Tele, =Escape would not be squelched as worthless (no change to item cost)

[Pete Mack]

Amulets of teleportation are pretty much useless. I might have used one once out of desperation while trying to run away in ironman. But it was probably =Tele instead.

[PowerDiver]

Just for yucks, here is my list in order of usefulness to me in the dungeon, ignoring sale value

=reckless attacks
=teleportation
=escaping
"teleportation
=dog
=open wounds
!dragon breath
=mouse

[Napsterbater]

Just for yucks, here is my list in order of usefulness to me in the dungeon, ignoring sale value

=reckless attacks
=teleportation
=escaping
"teleportation
=dog
=open wounds
!dragon breath
=mouse

Is AC really that worthless? I never put =reckless attacks on, because I feel like my Hobbit or Kobold Rogues are defenseless enough and the +1-+5 damage just doesn't seem like adequate compensation while I'm still getting 2 blows. By the time i have three I'm usually wearing either =FA or =str and have a Thanc or highly enchanted knife.

[bron]

Is AC really that worthless?

Yes.

Admittedly, AC is not completely worthless. I just find that it is worth less than virtually any other consideration.

[Pete Mack]

Here is my list of junky jewelry:
=Escaping x2
=Teleportation x2
=Escaping x1
"Searching
=Teleportation x1

I haven't ever used any of the others. And I agree that +AC isn't much help, given other +AC equipment. But -AC really can hurt a lot. If weak-ish mobs (Uruks, Forest trolls) can hit you easily at cl 25, your AC isn't high enough.

In Ironman, Open Wounds, Searching, and Dog, might be more valuable as swaps. But I doubt it.

[buzzkill]

I actually use the teleportaion in the early game, two at a time if I can. Bouncing around the dungeon is a good way to detect objects far and wide. You just have to remember to take the damn ring off once you're near something that you want. I hardly ever find dragon's breath. It needs to retain it's rarity but come earlier, when it's useful.

[Marble Dice]

Maybe I should ask the question, what is the purpose of the squelch_worthless option? To automatically squelch items which cannot be sold for money? Or to squelch items which serve no potentially useful purpose within the game?

If it's the latter, then we should just give a value to all the listed items, which would prevent them from being squelched. They might not be actually "useful" but they're not harmful, and they may be situationally useful at low character, dungeon, or skill levels.

[Napsterbater]

If it's the latter, then we should just give a value to all the listed items, which would prevent them from being squelched. They might not be actually "useful" but they're not harmful, and they may be situationally useful at low character, dungeon, or skill levels.

Why not just replace those items with gold then? It's good gameplay to have chaff items that soak up ids and inv slots. Giving worthless items high gold values just for the sake of making them useful is dumb, if you ask me. This goes beyond rectifying Too Much Junk in my opinion. You can't just eliminate junk. You have to have junk. Junk is what makes good items worthwhile.

When you get down to level 30 and see un-id'ed rings and wands and rods that you could very well die trying to grab, you don't just not go for them just because most of the time, all you'll find is a wand of fire bolts, a ring of the dog. You get excited because sometimes, you'll find that ring of speed, that un-id'ed -TO. If every item were as useful as a -TO, nothing would be worth risking death over. Half a screen and a pack of water hounds would discourage you from ID'ing a new rod. You'd just wait until you found one that spawned right next to you, because you'd know that the next rod you find would be just as useful.

Some things have to be junk. That's just the way it is. You can try to make them ever so slightly useful, in certain rare occasions, but 99% of the time you find them, they'll be junk.

[PowerDiver]

I'm just guessing, but I think squelch_worthless might have been introduced to eliminate rings with good flavors but negative pvals.

[Marble Dice]

Giving worthless items high gold values just for the sake of making them useful is dumb, if you ask me. This goes beyond rectifying Too Much Junk in my opinion. You can't just eliminate junk. You have to have junk. Junk is what makes good items worthwhile.

Giving a value to junky rings in object.txt would (counter-intuitively) not change their sale price or affect gameplay in any way, because equipment discards the object kind's value field and uses a power-based algorithm to determine price. Adding a price in object.txt will simply prevent the game from automatically squelching those items when the "squelch_worthless" option is on.

I'm just guessing, but I think squelch_worthless might have been introduced to eliminate rings with good flavors but negative pvals.

Thankfully we have quality squelch for that, now. Currently the option only squelches kinds which have a value of "0" in the object.txt file - even though rings and amulets use power-based pricing instead of the static edit file value.

I think the only way to address this problem (rings of teleportation/escaping get squelched by squelch_worthless) for now is to just add a "placeholder" value in object.txt. I don't think we could do anything based on actual item value without item-level squelch, since a randomized item kind could possibly have a zero or a non-zero value based on how good the item was.

[will_asher]

I'm just guessing, but I think squelch_worthless might have been introduced to eliminate rings with good flavors but negative pvals.

I thought it was introduced around 3.0.8 before !death and =stupidity and all those obviously bad things were removed. (Even then wands of heal monster would get squelched with squelch_worthless, and they do 4d6 damage to undead.)

[Magnate]

I thought it was introduced around 3.0.8 before !death and =stupidity and all those obviously bad things were removed. (Even then wands of heal monster would get squelched with squelch_worthless, and they do 4d6 damage to undead.)

It was introduced to auto-squelch items you can't sell. Either keep it doing that, or get rid of it altogether.