Squelch Worthless option not sticking

[Zikke]

When a character dies and I use the old save file to re-make a new character, it does not automatically squelch worthless items any more, even though the option looks to be set in the options.

In the first game I made, it correctly deleted things like "Wand of Haste Monster" etc. but after making several characters from the same file, none of the subsequent characters will do this.

[awldune]

I have encountered this also.

[dhegler]

I also wish all birth options would stick (ie randarts) after you change them.

[PowerDiver]

I also wish all birth options would stick (ie randarts) after you change them.

I was wondering if there was some strange thing with squelch_worthless, but now I wonder if this is yet another pref file problem. I know for sure that the randarts birth option sticks from game to game for me.

I offer a totally unsubstantiated guess that you guys have some pref file that is somehow overwriting some of your options. Did you ever "save options" through a menu some time past?

[awldune]

Did you ever "save options" through a menu some time past?

I have, yes. I thought you had to if you wanted the options to stick after exiting and reopening Angband.

Aren't macros and "visuals" settings like that?

[Zikke]

Related question:

If I create a new character based on the old character with randarts, does it re-generate a new set of Randarts every game? Or does it use the original batch?

[PowerDiver]

I have, yes. I thought you had to if you wanted the options to stick after exiting and reopening Angband.

Aren't macros and "visuals" settings like that?

Once you save an option to a pref file, you can never keep it changed, because each time the game starts the pref file is read and the changed option is overwritten by the value in the pref file.

Macros belong in a pref file. I'm not sure about visuals. Options should never have been allowed in pref files.

Delete your pref files and you should be able to change options again. Be very careful about what you put into any new pref files you create.

@Zikke randarts are regenerated at the start of each game

[dhegler]

I was wondering if there was some strange thing with squelch_worthless, but now I wonder if this is yet another pref file problem. I know for sure that the randarts birth option sticks from game to game for me.

I offer a totally unsubstantiated guess that you guys have some pref file that is somehow overwriting some of your options. Did you ever "save options" through a menu some time past?

Each time I start a new game, it always has randarts set to off.

[Magnate]

Once you save an option to a pref file, you can never keep it changed, because each time the game starts the pref file is read and the changed option is overwritten by the value in the pref file.

Macros belong in a pref file. I'm not sure about visuals. Options should never have been allowed in pref files.

Delete your pref files and you should be able to change options again. Be very careful about what you put into any new pref files you create.

@Zikke randarts are regenerated at the start of each game

In the previous thread about pref files, there emerged a consensus that we should split stuff into a "knowledge" file and a "settings" file. The settings file should contain options that are common across characters (e.g. subwindow settings, display settings - how you set up your visual environment) - but not options that are character-specific (e.g. AI options, birth options etc.). Those should stay in the save file.

[PowerDiver]

In the previous thread about pref files, there emerged a consensus that we should split stuff into a "knowledge" file and a "settings" file. The settings file should contain options that are common across characters (e.g. subwindow settings, display settings - how you set up your visual environment) - but not options that are character-specific (e.g. AI options, birth options etc.). Those should stay in the save file.

The future may be a long way away. In the interim, can we simply disable setting variables read from pref files that do not belong in them? Or would that screw up the parser?

[Magnate]

The future may be a long way away. In the interim, can we simply disable setting variables read from pref files that do not belong in them? Or would that screw up the parser?

Don't know. But as soon as I make any changes to pref files, I'll do the whole thing. MarbleDice is pretty close to splitting out the knowledge file anyway, I think. I'm still waiting to finalise the Debian package of 3.1.2v2, then I'll get onto this.

[PowerDiver]

I've been fixing the squelch_worthless option, and came upon a possibly tricky situation while playtesting.

Should worthless flavors be marked as squelched in the object knowledge menu if you have the squelch_worthless option set?

It seems obvious that the answer is "yes", but there is a problem. Sooner or later the squelch menus will disappear, and everything will go through the object knowledge. At that time, it might be perplexing if someone looks and see some object kind being squelched, toggles squelch and it does not become unsquelched.

Is there a simple solution that won't confuse anyone? Am I worrying about nothing?

[Marble Dice]

Having the option squelch items regardless of their squelch setting is just confusing period. It might be some help to use a bright red X for a kind which is squelched, and a dark red X for a kind which is worthless but not squelched (and thus squelched by the option).

The other alternative is to just set the squelch flag for that item kind at specific events - such as when you become aware (for previously unknown worthless flavors), or when you turn the option on (for all known worthless flavors). This would be similar to how it works now, but less buggy.

[Magnate]

Having the option squelch items regardless of their squelch setting is just confusing period. It might be some help to use a bright red X for a kind which is squelched, and a dark red X for a kind which is worthless but not squelched (and thus squelched by the option).

The other alternative is to just set the squelch flag for that item kind at specific events - such as when you become aware (for previously unknown worthless flavors), or when you turn the option on (for all known worthless flavors). This would be similar to how it works now, but less buggy.

This is the way to do it. The option should simply set all worthless items to be squelched, leaving the user free to unsquelch them individually via the knowledge menu. Whether the option sets unknown worthless items to be squelched is a matter for debate - I say yes, otherwise the option is pointless.

[PowerDiver]

What you two are proposing is a squelch command, not an interface option.

Options are yes/no, and toggling twice should be a no-op. They should not be commands to do something.

I remember a choice in the tval based squelch menu to squelch or unsquelch all svals for that tval. I don't know if that was in V or NPP or somewhere else. That sort of thing belongs buried in the squelch interface, or perhaps in the future in the object knowledge interface. That was occasionally useful, but I never missed it, until recently when I implemented money squelch.

I am more likely to save and use a potion of poison or a scroll of trap creation than a wand of confuse monster, so I never use the option. Perhaps the better choice is to remove the option. That would be less annoying to people who like the option if someone created an appropriately named prf file to be distributed and locatable in lib/pref whose sole contents was a set of squelch settings for worthless objects, and a more reasonable interface for loading recommeneded prf files.