Misc 3.1.2 Questions

[z118]

First, to all involved in Angband development - THANK YOU!

A few notes, questions, comments, etc - and my apologies now if these issues have been discussed already.

Perhaps it is only my perception, but I seem to be getting many more pieces of armor of resist lightning (vs other resists) than I noticed in earlier versions. Is this intentional in the 3.1.2?

My dwarf priest somehow senses treasure in walls that are several squares away and out of sight. Very nice perk for sure - is this just for dwarves? It does not seem to apply to treasure on the floor, only in walls.

Digging tools seem less needed in 3.1.2 than before. Again, maybe just me?

The smaller cash amounts on the first levels is annoying but makes perfect sense, and I think it is very well offset by the increased value of low level armor.

The new "mixed bag" rings are great, though I don't seem to find any at early enough levels that I would think about wearing them.

The quiver is the GREAT!

Is see that some folks on the forum have notations indicate money donated... where/who/what does the money go to?

Again, thank you for this great game and all the work pu into maintaining and improving it!

[Magnate]

First, to all involved in Angband development - THANK YOU!

A few notes, questions, comments, etc - and my apologies now if these issues have been discussed already.

Perhaps it is only my perception, but I seem to be getting many more pieces of armor of resist lightning (vs other resists) than I noticed in earlier versions. Is this intentional in the 3.1.2?

No, this is just a random streak. Lightning is exactly as common as the other low elemental resists.

My dwarf priest somehow senses treasure in walls that are several squares away and out of sight. Very nice perk for sure - is this just for dwarves? It does not seem to apply to treasure on the floor, only in walls.

Yes, just for dwarves. This is one of the new racial perks - there are a few.

Digging tools seem less needed in 3.1.2 than before. Again, maybe just me?

Depends what you mean. The digging formulae haven't changed, so it's just as hard to dig as it ever was. AFAICR the availability of Stone to Mud hasn't changed either. So I can't think of a reason that digging tools would be less needed for any given play style.

The smaller cash amounts on the first levels is annoying but makes perfect sense, and I think it is very well offset by the increased value of low level armor.

That's interesting. The amounts have been made more variable, but with exactly the same average. Could be another random streak.

The new "mixed bag" rings are great, though I don't seem to find any at early enough levels that I would think about wearing them.

I can't abide them myself, but glad someone likes them. Yes, item distribution will always need adjusting.

Is see that some folks on the forum have notations indicate money donated... where/who/what does the money go to?

It goes towards the running costs of the forum server, which is run by Pav.

[z118]

Thanks for the response...

Perhaps I feel less of a need for a shovel because I have of late not settled for less than a starting strength of 18.

I would swear that I almost always find <10pg worth of copper per stack on the first few levels, but perhaps that's just my perception... I will pay more attention during my next new game.

[PowerDiver]

Thanks for the response...

Perhaps I feel less of a need for a shovel because I have of late not settled for less than a starting strength of 18.

I would swear that I almost always find <10pg worth of copper per stack on the first few levels, but perhaps that's just my perception... I will pay more attention during my next new game.

Is it possible that dwarves get a tunneling bonus? I only rarely dig so I have no idea.

I've been complaining about low gold drops for a while. If you want money, you have to drag things home to sell.

[z118]

Bear with me here... it has likely always been this way and perhaps I am only noticing now in 3.1.2 where examining a weapon will give the average damage per hit - but suddenly it occurs to me that a mediocre light weapon can be much better than an excellent heavy weapon. As a for intance, my dwarf priest just found a nice war hammer of HA:

a War Hammer (Holy Avenger) (3d3) (+11,+9) [+3] (+3)
+3 wisdom.
Slays evil creatures, undead, demons.
Provides resistance to fear.
Sustains wisdom.
Blessed by the gods. Grants the ability to see invisible things.

But because I only get one blow per round it still does not seem better that the shovel I have been using which gets two:


a Shovel of Digging (1d2) (+7,+11) (+4)
+4 tunneling.
Branded with acid.

Combat info:
2 blows/round.
With an additional 4 strength and 7 dex you would get 3 blows
Average damage/hit: 20.2 vs. creatures not resistant to acid, and
17 vs. others.

Perhaps this has been completely obvious to everyone all along. I've obviously known all these years that two hits was better than one, but I think I figured that would be offset when wielding a really great weapon.

I guess too that HA is not the end all and be all weapon that I thought it was anymore... perhaps I still have Moria on the brain.

[z118]

Also, I thought the temple used to purchase lucerne hammers...

[Pete Mack]

Lucerne hammers are edged weapons, actually a polearm--basically an axe head on a long handle, with a nasty spike in back and another sticking out straight like a spear.

Yes, multiple blows are better, unless you find a really high-damage weapon. (3d3 is not enough dice to really do the trick.)
If you are getting 2 blows with a shovel, you may get 3 blows with a main gauche or dagger.

[bron]

Also, I thought the temple used to purchase lucerne hammers...

Yes, that is true. But a mistake, as Pete Mack points out.

[z118]

Aren't morning stars just as "edged?"

[Derakon]

The conventional wisdom for ages has been that when rolling up a new melee character, you should try to get your STR and DEX high enough to get at least 3 blows with a light weapon. Then you sell your starting (heavy) weapon, buy a whip or main gauche or the like, and go nuts in melee.

O-style combat changes this by making heavy weapons deal significantly more damage than light weapons, though the value of multiple blows isn't really de-emphasized.

[Marble Dice]

Aren't morning stars just as "edged?"

God works in mysterious ways.

[Hariolor]

O-style combat changes this by making heavy weapons deal significantly more damage than light weapons, though the value of multiple blows isn't really de-emphasized.

I've been playing a lot of O while I waited for 3.1.2 to become more mac-friendly. Seems it is now and I'll be downloading it. But it sure has been refreshing playing a melee system that actually makes some sense in terms of incentives for weapon weight/damage/blows.

[RogerN]

But it sure has been refreshing playing a melee system that actually makes some sense in terms of incentives for weapon weight/damage/blows.

There are several reasons why Angband's melee system doesn't make sense.

- Damage from enchantments quickly dwarfs the base damage dice on all but the heaviest of weapons. This fact, combined with readily available enchantment scrolls in the town, puts far too much emphasis on the number of blows.

- There's no consideration given to the difficulty of fighting with a particular weapon. A dagger, for example, is nowhere near long enough to effectively engage an opponent wielding a spear or a decent sword.

- There's no consideration given to the effects of armor on various types of weapons.

- The relative weights of weapons are arbitrarily chosen, and have little to do with weapon weights in the real world

- The blows calculation does not factor in the length of a weapon (which in many cases could significantly increase its inertia when swinging) or the weight of your character's arm (although there is a minimum weapon weight, which is similar)

Now I don't believe any game should aspire to a perfectly realistic model of combat. That wouldn't be fun. But it would be nice if the combat system made sense, such that a big beefy warrior should prefer to fight with a big weapon. Strength points should be a bonus, not to wield tiny weapons more effectively, but to wield larger weapons capable of more raw damage.

There are several ways to accomplish this, but I think the quickest and least controversial method is this: don't allow players to purchase stacks of enchantment scrolls in the town. If light weapons are not easily enchanted then they lose most of their appeal. Most players will find a superior, heavier weapon in the dungeon early on.

[PowerDiver]

don't allow players to purchase stacks of enchantment scrolls in the town. If light weapons are not easily enchanted then they lose most of their appeal. Most players will find a superior, heavier weapon in the dungeon early on.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "heavier" and "early on". I almost never enchant my melee weapons, taking what the dungeon has to offer, and I rarely use anything heavier than a trident [7 lb] except with a priest. A long sword is typically not useful. This continues until I find a splendid weapon. FA and brands are important enough to change the equation.

[Xaxyx]

don't allow players to purchase stacks of enchantment scrolls in the town. If light weapons are not easily enchanted then they lose most of their appeal. Most players will find a superior, heavier weapon in the dungeon early on.

While I might agree with the principle you've identified, I vehemently disagree with your proposed solution. Preventing players from enchanting their lightweight weapons will not cause them to feel motivated to seek out a heavier one. They will instead seek out lightweight weapons in the dungeon that are randomly imbued with a high +damage value. Thus, you've now exacerbated the issue: the character's melee will suffer until he comes across such a weapon, at which point his melee will instantly skyrocket in efficacy.

If the combat system has a flaw, then address the system. The whole strength-dex-weapon-weight chart system is bizarre in and of itself. It could be replaced with something simpler, more formulaic, more sensible and more robust. Class and even character level could be taken into more sensible consideration. Heck, attacks per round needn't even be a constant; how many attacks a character receives each round could be a semi-random value within a range, based on various stats of the character as well as his target.