Artefact ammo

[miyazaki]

I have been wondering why there is no artefact ammunition... seems like it would work in the context of the game. I can see an arrow being ridiculously powerful but if you only have one, then the damage would be balanced against having to retrieve it after/during a fight and whether you want to use an inventory space for a single arrow. I guess it would have to be indestructable.

The seeker arrow of Bard (6d4) (+15, +15), *Slays Dragons*, branded with fire

That would be pretty cool to find.

[JohnCW9]

I have been wondering why there is no artefact ammunition... seems like it would work in the context of the game. I can see an arrow being ridiculously powerful but if you only have one, then the damage would be balanced against having to retrieve it after/during a fight and whether you want to use an inventory space for a single arrow. I guess it would have to be indestructable.

The seeker arrow of Bard (6d4) (+15, +15), *Slays Dragons*, branded with fire

That would be pretty cool to find.

Some of the variants have such Ammo such TOME.

John

[Zikke]

Would having just 1 artifact arrow be valuable? Seems like you'd need a stack. Even having 10 that never break would be cool.

[miyazaki]

Would having just 1 artifact arrow be valuable? Seems like you'd need a stack. Even having 10 that never break would be cool.

I think a stack of ten would be too powerful. I figure artefact ammo would have to do enough damage to make it worth using an inventory space. If you had an arrow that did 1000+ damage to dragons, would you keep it? Probably mid-game, and especially if you were a warrior.

[Zikke]

I would think you wouldn't need to use artifact ammo unless you were fighting a particularly nasty unique, in which case 1 arrow probably wouldn't help much. Maybe like 5?

[emulord]

You also need to consider the wasted inventory slot. In variants with artifact ammo, usually I only use it if I find it WAY out of depth or there is a quiver and it gives me stat boosts.

[Atarlost]

From what I remember playing ToME single artifact projectiles are utterly useless unless they do insane damage. The stacks of randart projectiles, though, are extremely valuable. They come in randomly sized stacks, have random slays and brands, and never break. They either save slots by combining two or more types you would be carrying anyways or get you a slay/brand you woudln't otherwise be carrying and in a stack unbreakableness is valuable on its own.

So while Bard's Black Arrow is garbage without a quiver because there's only one the steel bolts of Whatsisface (x20) might be incredibly useful.

[Magnate]

Since the quiver is most definitely on the to-do list, I suspect artifact ammo won't be too far behind. Mere decades, possibly.

[tummychow]

A quiver for vanilla! Yessss...
But I don't think the artifact arrow would come in handy. It's just too valuable. I'd rather sell it to get tons of enchanted arrows and then throw them down one after the other at an enemy. Now, if this artifact arrow inflicts an imbalanced amount of damage, it might be worth using up my entire inventory slot, but it would then be... imbalanced.

[Magnate]

A quiver for vanilla! Yessss...
But I don't think the artifact arrow would come in handy. It's just too valuable. I'd rather sell it to get tons of enchanted arrows and then throw them down one after the other at an enemy. Now, if this artifact arrow inflicts an imbalanced amount of damage, it might be worth using up my entire inventory slot, but it would then be... imbalanced.

I think that's kind of the point of this thread. A single artifact arrow which does so much damage it's worth taking up an entire inventory slot. And it's indestructible too.

Personally I don't think any amount of one-shot damage is worth an entire inv slot - which is why I think it's only worth doing once we have the quiver. An entire quiver slot (=1/10th of an inv slot) is much more feasible.

[fizzix]

I think that's kind of the point of this thread. A single artifact arrow which does so much damage it's worth taking up an entire inventory slot. And it's indestructible too.

Personally I don't think any amount of one-shot damage is worth an entire inv slot - which is why I think it's only worth doing once we have the quiver. An entire quiver slot (=1/10th of an inv slot) is much more feasible.

Having just played the competition variant, the quiver greatly changes the approach to the game. I certainly think that it's a very good feature to have in Vanilla, but I would recommend reducing archery damage overall. Archery is overpowered right now for damage, but is kept somewhat in check by the huge slot demands of ammo. This situation is unideal, and a more balanced archery damage system combined with a less frustrating inventory system (i.e. quiver) is probably a good approach. I would also recommend a home quiver.

Once those changes are made, I think artifact ammo can be reasonably made. I'd rather not have individual arrows with large bonuses but small stacks 5-10 ammo with reasonable bonuses. Maybe, along the lines of current damage levels of branded ammo.

[tummychow]

So true.. bows are massively overpowered. An arrow from my rogue's Long Bow (10,14) of Extra Shots deals three times as much damage as my Beaked Axe of Hurin, from range.
I second all that, fizzix. Reduce archery damage and give us quivers! I hate getting my precious enchanted arrows burned up!

[miyazaki]

I got thinking about supercharged ammo during my last game when I found a randart light xbow (x6) and seeker bolts of holy might that were doing over 800 damage each to undead. I used them on Morgoth and they did close to 600 damage to him.

I was thinking that having an arrow that does 1000+ damage when I was hunting ancient dragons would be quite handy. Of course it would become obsolete, but most arefacts do as well. I imagine it as effective early/mid-game equipment.

[Pete Mack]

Assuming you are using an x5 longbow (+19), with a *slay dragon* seeker arrow 4d4 (+20), you'll be doing 1225 damage with a single shot. Unless you ate playing Ranger, that's always worth while as the first shot against Higher Dragons. Getting Ancalagon or Glaurung below 5000 HP quickly makes a huge difference.

[tummychow]

Waitaminnit. You can change the multiplier for shooters in the edits?? Why don't I know about this??
And are there bolts of holy might in the ego edits? Or are those somehow connected to randarts?
Either way, just those examples suggest that you'd benefit a lot more from a stack of unusually strong ammo (and we're talking about bows which are already overpowered) than one superpowered 2k damage arrow. At least from my opinion, as an excessive looter, I find that my inventory slots are priceless.