feature request: merge !restoreStat

[Pete Mack]

Or you can just implement the buy-out-the-store option. If you really need rDex, you can get it already without waiting for 1000's of turns. It's just
a) noticeably expensive (probably a good thing) and
b) really bad UI (definitely a bad thing.)

The store service is a reasonable solution here, although I'd go with x5 cost rather than x2.5

[s0be]

My 2.5 number there was just off the cuff. I haven't looked at the price on these in a while... been tinkering with the borg a lot.

[ClaytonAguiar]

Recall restoration

Hi,

I like the idea of restoring on recall. This is a somewhat obvious task any drained players will do when returning to the city. If there is no restore potion, go to level 1, rest 1000 turns and come back, repeatedly, will make the potions appear. Implementing this restoration would focus the player less in townscumming and more in deeper diving.

The potions would still be sold, to let us take them to the dungeon, to recover the drains without recalling. Their price could be raised, too.

This "restoration-on-recall" could be free or "taxed". Paid restoration could be automatic or based on the service shops ideas that exist since zangband and other angband "flavors". I don't like the "service shopping way" because this would need much more coding (adjusting existing shops to deal with services too or adding new shop styles) and visual redesigns (a town with more than 8 "houses").

Just my 2-cent contribution to this thread.

[RogerN]

I like the idea of restoring on recall.

He was being sarcastic, not actually suggesting that stats should be restored on recall.

I wouldn't mind seeing just one or two !restore items. I don't think you'd need to tweak with the rarity, either, since having fewer item types means !restore is automatically more rare. At the same time, other useful potions (CCW, for example) ought to become more common... right?

[ClaytonAguiar]

Yes, I could see that. But...

He was being sarcastic, not actually suggesting that stats should be restored on recall.

Yeah, I got it when I first read his message. But then I thought about the time spent between town and level 1, waiting for the restore potions. And the work spent to balance the game and focus the attention of the player in the dungeon crawling and diving.

I can't say every player does this, but when I return to the town drained of any stat, I dive back to the dungeon only when I'm "100% restored". Many people I know do the same.

Walking a lot between town and dungeon level 1 favors Black Market scumming, because many people will think "if a now potion arrived at the Alchemist, perhaps a new nice item should be at the BM too".

I think any effort spent to reduce the time in town (or the frequency of recalls) will automatically favor and enhance gameplay and game experience.

[Pete Mack]

Expensive store service is probably the right answer for this. (In effect, this service already exists, with a very inconvenient UI: store scum, or buy out the Alchemist.)

[Mondkalb]

...
I can't say every player does this, but when I return to the town drained of any stat, I dive back to the dungeon only when I'm "100% restored". Many people I know do the same.

Walking a lot between town and dungeon level 1 favors Black Market scumming, because many people will think "if a now potion arrived at the Alchemist, perhaps a new nice item should be at the BM too".

I think any effort spent to reduce the time in town (or the frequency of recalls) will automatically favor and enhance gameplay and game experience.

I don't do town scumming always but only if the stat reduction is menacing my char. (e. g. reduced DEX gives only one blow instead of three or if reduction of WIS or INT makes spell casting impossible.)
If it would be only one point of STR and didn't affect blows I'd rather go back to the dungeon hoping for a potion or mushroom.

OTOH if I do town scumming for restore potions I always visit the BM and other shops too, hoping to find useful items.

[RogerN]

Stat drains are a timed effect in Steamband, and I think it works nicely (with a fairly long timer). The nice thing about timed effects is that they don't encourage scumming but they do pose a challenge for hard-core players who are going for turn count. You could still have !restore available in town and in the dungeon.

[PaulBlay]

Stat drains are a timed effect in Steamband, and I think it works nicely (with a fairly long timer).

That's something I was going to suggest. Otherwise you could set it up so that drained stats auto-restore when you go up a level.

[buzzkill]

Stat drains are a timed effect in Steamband, and I think it works nicely (with a fairly long timer). The nice thing about timed effects is that they don't encourage scumming but they do pose a challenge for hard-core players who are going for turn count. You could still have !restore available in town and in the dungeon.

Stat drains are also a LOT more common in Steam. It isn't unusual to encounter stat drainers (even single creatures capable of draining multiple stats) in the first few levels.

...and thanks for the info, I didn't know (never noticed) that.

Does Steam have a turn counter?

[Colbey]

Expensive store service is probably the right answer for this. (In effect, this service already exists, with a very inconvenient UI: store scum, or buy out the Alchemist.)

But it also exists for free, by waiting on Level 1. Why would we (those of us who play without regard for turncount) pay more for something we can do for free?

This isn't a problem you turncounters are complaining about anyway; you seem happy to just keep diving with reduced stats until you find the right potion. Whatever solution we come up with should be specifically for non-turncounters, without making things too easy for the turncounters.

[Donald Jonker]

Expensive store service is probably the right answer for this. (In effect, this service already exists, with a very inconvenient UI: store scum, or buy out the Alchemist.)

I'm all for store services if it's an option that Andi will take seriously. So far it appears not. Eddie's buyout button is a necessary for oh-so-many other reasons as well, but probably insufficient to tackle restoration in early-mid game. Just too expensive.

You want to make stat drain monsters a serious threat but not to make it infuriatingly difficult to restore your stats. You shouldn't have to return to town more than, say, 3 times to find the potion you're looking for. In that way, I think !rBody and !rSoul might even be more attractive than store services, in that they'd split the difference between being extremely rare and guaranteed.

You also wouldn't need to squelch !restorestat in the dungeon, and mushrooms of restoring would still be valuable.

[Donald Jonker]

But it also exists for free, by waiting on Level 1. Why would we (those of us who play without regard for turncount) pay more for something we can do for free?

Because it isn't free - not really. It's boring; it doesn't just take up game turns, it takes up real time: time you could be spending playing the game. Even with macros, townscumming is a pain. (But with current UI, buying out the stores is worse.)

[RogerN]

Now that I think about it, I must have been thinking about a different variant. Steam definitely does not have timed stat-drains, since that would make Cthulhu magic rather silly. What variants *do* have timed stat drains?

[Colbey]

Because it isn't free - not really. It's boring; it doesn't just take up game turns, it takes up real time: time you could be spending playing the game. Even with macros, townscumming is a pain. (But with current UI, buying out the stores is worse.)

Spending in-game resources to save real-life time isn't a fun tradeoff for me. (Remember "Sprint Shoes" in Final Fantasy VI? Every game after that just had a built-in sprint option without having to waste an item slot on it.) If I'm bad at Angband (or even possibly if I'm not), I'm going to want to spend every coin I have on useful things, and if I can save the money by doing something boring, I will....or I'll just stop playing.