feature request: merge !restoreStat

[PowerDiver]

I think that on multiple occasions I have recalled with restore mana stat potions, particularly restore wisdom for a priest, but I don't remember for sure.

AAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH

I just realized I have recalled with restore stat potions dozens of times.

The point is that if you buy a restore potion in town, because of an annoying but not deadly stat drain, you should not quaff it. E.g. a melee char down from 4 blows to 3 blows, or a spellcaster down 1 or 2 spellstat points. Take the potion back to the dungeon, and hold off until the stat drain is deadly, either because of further drains or because you need to take on a unique or whatever. Also, quaff it if you have to face a cold breather or you absolutely need the slot for something else.

[buzzkill]

... Personally, I don't think overly difficult stat restore adds much depth to the game ...

It makes stat drainers scary. It forces you to avoid confrontation with monsters that you may otherwise not think twice about. If in-dungeon, or for that matter in-town, stat restoration is going to become easier, then XP and drop adjustments for stat draining monsters will have to be made to compensate.

And, you know, there are rings of sustain available, really cheap, that no one, including myself, ever uses. So I guess it's not really that big of an issue after all, otherwise the complainers (settle down ) would focus more on prevention and less on "Oh, I got the solution, lets change the game."

I fear change.

[Marble Dice]

It makes stat drainers scary. It forces you to avoid confrontation with monsters that you may otherwise not think twice about. If in-dungeon, or for that matter in-town, stat restoration is going to become easier, then XP and drop adjustments for stat draining monsters will have to be made to compensate.

Yes, I avoid stat drainers, period. If restore was more available (via a service or combined potions), I would still avoid them. Even if it was trivial to restore stats, and I'm not arguing it should be, it still costs money, and in the early game that's enough of a penalty for me to avoid it. Basically the same reason I avoid fighting acid/fire/theft unless it's necessary or rewarding. Making stat restoration less painful than "hope for 1 in 6" or "waste keystrokes, game turns, and RL seconds until you're satisfied" isn't going to change how much stat drainers get avoided. And what xp and drops are you talking about? I can't think of any stat drainers < 2000' that I would bother with even if they had no stat drain.

[Mondkalb]

Avoiding stat drainers is of course prime directive.
But sometimes you can't.
Just in the early game the moaning spirit is a sneaky bastard (native to 600'). If you haven't see invisible, it can drain your stat multiple times without difficulty. Even if you can see it, it is very fast, often comes out of nowhere when you are fighting a group of monsters, it terrifies you so you can't kill it if you ran out of !heroism or mana.
Making stat restoring more expensive would lead to even more scumming to get the money.

[TJS]

All these problems come from the fact that you have a town that you recall back to every so often.

If instead of ?WoR you had dungeon towns or even better individual dungeon shops or mini-towns littered about the dungeons themselves (which you can detect for, perhaps with the detect doors/stairs spell) then there wouldn't be such a thing as town scumming. Also it would create interesting gameplay choices where you might take a risk to get to a temple because you have a vital stat that has been drained.

[PowerDiver]

It would be a radical move, but merging !restoreStat into one general use potion would solve many problems: an element of TMJ, the main reason to townscum, a major source of irritation in the game.

This discussion has devolved into a discussion of store services. I wonder about the main point. How does merging the potions help in any way? If you have a choice of finding/buying one each of the current potions or one super-restore, wouldn't you prefer one each? That way, your strength gets drained, restore it, then some time later your dex gets drained, restore that. It would take 2 super-restores for the same effect.

The only way the super-restores help is if they are more common than the individual single restores, but you could achieve the same benefit by increasing the frequency of individual restores. Also that you can carry them using a single inventory slot, but in the initial post it was accepted that this could be unbalancing.

I think the problem is that the attack on TMJ has reduced consumables drops too much, and so it takes longer to find restores in the dungeon. OTOH, maybe that is a good thing and I'm just too used to the old generation scheme.

[Donald Jonker]

The only way the super-restores help is if they are more common than the individual single restores, but you could achieve the same benefit by increasing the frequency of individual restores. Also that you can carry them using a single inventory slot, but in the initial post it was accepted that this could be unbalancing.

This is what I was after. If the two super restores are as common as the six single restores are (collectively), then you have a far higher chance of finding what you want when you want it. Say you've got a 1/x chance of a !rstat being generated at the alchemist. In a regime of 2 pots instead of 6 you've tripled your chances of finding one that fits your ailment. (I hope that makes a modicum of sense.) And I can't ever remember having found the right restore in the dungeon.

Combining them also means it might even make sense to blow an inventory slot on one, for the same reasons. There's a 1/2 chance that the stat that's going to be drained is the one that's covered by your potion, instead of 1/6.

Merging into one single potion would certainly be unbalancing. I think two would be much more manageable. As you say, you've paid for more restoration than has been used, but I can't really see a problem with that.

EDIT: Simply increasing the rate of regular pots is fine, but it seems you kill far more birds with fewer stones. Fewer pots means that they're never junk, they're worth carrying, in proper frequency, and in proper proportion. Or maybe that's a tad optimistic.

I think the problem is that the attack on TMJ has reduced consumables drops too much, and so it takes longer to find restores in the dungeon.

That's certainly part of the problem.

[konijn_]

It would be a radical move, but merging !restoreStat into one general use potion would solve many problems: an element of TMJ, the main reason to townscum, a major source of irritation in the game.

The major downside would be that players would stock up on them and carry them around in the dungeon, taking up only one inventory slot. This could be circumvented by making them expensive.

Other objections?

For this other game I consider to have sustain rings also be restore rings that can be activated to restore the particular stat(s).

T.

[Rizwan]

This is what I was after. If the two super restores are as common as the six single restores are (collectively), then you have a far higher chance of finding what you want when you want it. Say you've got a 1/x chance of a !rstat being generated at the alchemist. In a regime of 2 pots instead of 6 you've tripled your chances of finding one that fits your ailment. (I hope that makes a modicum of sense.) And I can't ever remember having found the right restore in the dungeon.

Combining them also means it might even make sense to blow an inventory slot on one, for the same reasons. There's a 1/2 chance that the stat that's going to be drained is the one that's covered by your potion, instead of 1/6.

Merging into one single potion would certainly be unbalancing. I think two would be much more manageable. As you say, you've paid for more restoration than has been used, but I can't really see a problem with that.

EDIT: Simply increasing the rate of regular pots is fine, but it seems you kill far more birds with fewer stones. Fewer pots means that they're never junk, they're worth carrying, in proper frequency, and in proper proportion. Or maybe that's a tad optimistic.



That's certainly part of the problem.

I agree. I think someone already said this but I like the idea of merging the restore potions into two, body restoring (str,dex,con) and soul restoring(int,wis,cha) like the rings making each as common as the three it replaces and as expensive also.
I know lumping cha into soul might offend somebody but you get two neat groups this way