feature request - activate without id

[PowerDiver]

I would like to formally request that items such as the Phial or a ring of Acid should be activatable without identifying them first. I further request that activating an unaware flavor such as a ring of acid should make it aware. I.e. treat a ring of acid similarly to a rod of acid balls.

[Zikke]

I like this idea. By the time I'm finding any artifacts I generally have ample ID, but conceptually I think this is a good idea.

[saarn]

I like this idea too, but am curious about the gameplay mechanics--

Should activate allow me to try any unidentified items that might possibly activate-- for example, if I'm wearing a non-id'd ring of strength, should that appear as an item I can activate (always fails, but eats a turn)? Or do items that can activate "feel different."

I guess some of this goes back to the earlier discussion of learning object types. My thought is that it might make most sense to treat learning as an extension of pseudo-id-- if you wield something long enough, you learn what it is, but it takes longer the more rare/deep the item is.

[PowerDiver]

Should activate allow me to try any unidentified items that might possibly activate-- for example, if I'm wearing a non-id'd ring of strength, should that appear as an item I can activate (always fails, but eats a turn)?

That's just tedious, to no useful gameplay effect.

Or do items that can activate "feel different."

Well, to begin with they come with a "charge indicator" light. More specifically, the code is written so that you are presented with a menu of possible choices when you try to use a command such as 'A'.

[saarn]

To balance out this change, would there need to be a few more rings with unpleasant and/or mediocre behavior when activated so that pressing A doesn't help the player immediately know whether something is powerful or not (I can activate this ring, so therefore, it's either an artifact or something good)-- similar to staves, wands, potions, and anything else the player can fully ID by use? E.g. ring of the mouse could be activated for fear, ring of light might activate very rarely for illumination. . .

Regardless, artifacts should always let you activate them as soon as you know the object is special. Needing to identify the phial before I can light a room with it is silly.

[buzzkill]

Regardless, artifacts should always let you activate them as soon as you know the object is special. Needing to identify the phial before I can light a room with it is silly.

No, it's not silly. The Phial is essentially a chalice, isn't it? Perhaps is would activate for nourishment. Needing to identify a lantern before lighting a room with it IS silly, because the effects of activating a lantern IS obvious. I'm, of course, assuming that there is more to activating an artifact than pushing the 'activate' button. Just knowing an item is 'special' does make your character aware of all the intricacies of activation, yet alone the result. I understand your desire to carry forth 'player knowledge' into the Angabnd world to facilitate ease of play. That's alright for experienced players, I guess, but I also think that is takes a little something away from the game, especially for the newbs, and is a step in the wrong direction.

[Donald Jonker]

I would like to formally request that items such as the Phial or a ring of Acid should be activatable without identifying them first. I further request that activating an unaware flavor such as a ring of acid should make it aware. I.e. treat a ring of acid similarly to a rod of acid balls.

Should ID artifacts as well, assuming they have a unique base type + activation, which presumably they all do.

I've been thinking that the best way to achieve internal consistency with test ID is to assume the player has perfect knowledge of all game items. Then items can be ID'd by process of elimination. Of course, that's not always fast enough.

[PaulBlay]

No, it's not silly. The Phial is essentially a chalice, isn't it?

It's a vial. A glass container with either a stopper or more permanently sealed.

A chalice is an open cup, usually ornate and often associated with religious or mystic contexts.

They aren't really at all similar.

[PowerDiver]

Should ID artifacts as well, assuming they have a unique base type + activation, which presumably they all do.

Keep in mind that ID reveals all properties. This certainly does not generalize to randarts. It also does not apply to people who call the edit files "spoilers".

I've been thinking that the best way to achieve internal consistency with test ID is to assume the player has perfect knowledge of all game items. Then items can be ID'd by process of elimination. Of course, that's not always fast enough.

I agree, and I have implemented that [fancy code!], but getting that into V is a pipe dream. Too many people are not even willing to have a name or an item in a squelch menu unless you have identified the item in a previous game.

[takkaria]

I would like to formally request that items such as the Phial or a ring of Acid should be activatable without identifying them first. I further request that activating an unaware flavor such as a ring of acid should make it aware. I.e. treat a ring of acid similarly to a rod of acid balls.

Yeah, I'm all in favour of that, I think. Want to include this when you send me your other patches?

[PowerDiver]

Yeah, I'm all in favour of that, I think. Want to include this when you send me your other patches?

Of course. Currently I just removed the id check from obj_can_activate. Side effects appear to be to learn awareness upon noticeable activation but not to identify, but I have not checked thoroughly.