Ranger new spell idea...

[Magnate]

Edit: Didn't see the above post - I took a while to make my post. In my initial experiment, I got no slay evil ammo - I could make it less probable I guess. Maybe only half the chance of the others or something. Also, the brand ammo doesn't add acid, it only offers Fire/Cold/Poison. This is 3.1.1 I'm working with - does 3.1.0 differ in this regard? I do agree, a ranger with the "right" arrow types is quite deadly (fun since I've not played one before) but OTOH do you think you should have to save ever single slay evil piece of ammo you find the entire game ONLY for Morgoth because otherwise it's so incredibly rare you won't have any when the time comes? I mean I envisage a high level ranger making his arrows for the purpose he needs and this allows that.

Well, I think the reason the brand ammo spell doesn't create acid-branded arrows is precisely to stop rangers making them for fighting Sauron. So by the same token, your new spell shouldn't create Slay Evil arrows.

There's nothing wrong with your idea per se, but rangers are currently the class which least needs this kind of boost. Give it to rogues to use on sling ammo - then you'd be talking ...

CC

[PowerDiver]

There's nothing wrong with your idea per se, but rangers are currently the class which least needs this kind of boost. Give it to rogues to use on sling ammo - then you'd be talking ...

That would still be game-breaking. There are a few uniques that are not vulnerable to fire/cold/poison. If you allow the player to produce slay demon/undead/dragon as well, those uniques cease to be anywhere near as threatening.

Instead of adding a slay spell, we should be figuring out how to remove the brand spell.

[Nile]

Instead of adding a slay spell, we should be figuring out how to remove the brand spell.

I second.
......

[LanceDiamond]

That would still be game-breaking. There are a few uniques that are not vulnerable to fire/cold/poison. If you allow the player to produce slay demon/undead/dragon as well, those uniques cease to be anywhere near as threatening.

Instead of adding a slay spell, we should be figuring out how to remove the brand spell.

I don't entirely understand this. Why should rangers be forced to use the wrong type of damage while a melee can happily just switch weapons? I agree, the ranger seems easy but it's been fun for me. In fact, I added the slay spell, figured out how to make it cost the same as the brand, removed the randomness from both and can produce arrows at will. I also added acid and lightning to brand. Been running around with slay evil/dragon and acid brand - seems a nice mix.

Yes, it's easy mode and I wouldn't think all I've done would make it into the base code, but why rangers should be forced to not have the right damage is baffling. How about making arrows never drop at all - because they drop infrequently enough now, it may as well be never.

[Marble Dice]

Why should rangers be forced to use the wrong type of damage while a melee can happily just switch weapons?

It's a matter of balancing damage output. Rangers have high damage output even without slays and branded ammunition. With the right modifier on the ammo, they do absurd levels of damage, and all of this is from the (relative) safety of up to 12 tiles away.

The damage formula already favors ranged attacks in a number of ways. Ranged attacks receive two damage bonuses (launcher and the ammo), they get an extra multiplier (from the launcher, x3 for long bows), and the launcher multiplier modifies the damage bonuses (unlike the slay modifier). Consider that rangers can also get slays and multiple attacks with ranged, just like melee weapons get. The only mitigating factors are the inconvenience of carrying ammo, and the inconvenience of acquiring and expending high quality ammo (that with good base damage, high damage bonuses, and slays/brands).

By having easy access to good ammo enchantment (both for damage bonuses and for slays/brands), the ranger need not conserve his resources, and can go full throttle on anything. Two alternatives to having brand spells would be putting slays/brands on the launcher, and/or making powerful ammo easier to find (but not make).

I'm pretty sure a ranger with Bard and the right ammo already has the highest damage output in Vanilla, and at just about any level rangers are competitive if not dominant in terms of damage. Maybe a warrior rocking 6 attacks with one of the heavy-hitting artifact weapons VS an executable target could top a ranger, but I'd have to see the numbers before I believed it.

I agree though, it is hell of fun to tear through things with branded ammo and a good launcher.

[LanceDiamond]

It's a matter of balancing damage output. Rangers have high damage output even without slays and branded ammunition. With the right modifier on the ammo, they do absurd levels of damage, and all of this is from the (relative) safety of up to 12 tiles away.

The damage formula already favors ranged attacks in a number of ways. Ranged attacks receive two damage bonuses (launcher and the ammo), they get an extra multiplier (from the launcher, x3 for long bows), and the launcher multiplier modifies the damage bonuses (unlike the slay modifier). Consider that rangers can also get slays and multiple attacks with ranged, just like melee weapons get. The only mitigating factors are the inconvenience of carrying ammo, and the inconvenience of acquiring and expending high quality ammo (that with good base damage, high damage bonuses, and slays/brands).

By having easy access to good ammo enchantment (both for damage bonuses and for slays/brands), the ranger need not conserve his resources, and can go full throttle on anything. Two alternatives to having brand spells would be putting slays/brands on the launcher, and/or making powerful ammo easier to find (but not make).

I'm pretty sure a ranger with Bard and the right ammo already has the highest damage output in Vanilla, and at just about any level rangers are competitive if not dominant in terms of damage. Maybe a warrior rocking 6 attacks with one of the heavy-hitting artifact weapons VS an executable target could top a ranger, but I'd have to see the numbers before I believed it.

I agree though, it is hell of fun to tear through things with branded ammo and a good launcher.

Excellent points - wasn't thinking of the launcher bonus in there too. The char I've been playing around with these changes on is L45 now and yes, he can tear through about anything. Dump attached if anyone cares.

Fun changes but yes, almost certainly overpowered hehe. Such is messing with the source every time I get an idea.