Starting Equipment

[bobthegreat]

With all the current emphasis on balance for Vanilla, I think it's high time someone takes a look at rebalancing the starting equipment for the different classes, as it really makes a difference over the first few character levels. Lately I've been trying out new race/class combos (having lost a good char to my own stupidity) and it really bugs me how unbalanced the current starting kits are. Rangers, for example, start with a longbow (and arrows), a broadsword, the first magic book, and the "default kit" (?WoR, food, torches). Mages, on the other hand, get a dagger, MB1, and the default. I'm not sure what the optimal arrangement should be (do we go for gold value? general completeness of kit?) but either way, the current arrangement seems very unbalancing.

[Magnate]

I've always found it odd that Rangers start with a longbow rather than a shortbow (which would leave them more to aspire to). I think all chars should start naked with 500gp, with shortbows, arrows, mains gauche, ?WoR, torches, food and {M|P}B1 all guaranteed in stores.

[buzzkill]

All classes should start with a dagger, and a torch, a WoR, and a spell book, or a few additional daggers for non-casters. Let the player buy the rest.

EDIT: doh!

[PaulBlay]

speed book

I want a speed book. I've never found one yet.

[Nick]

I think all classes should start naked and confused with an aggravated mercenary next to them. That would sort 'em out.

[takkaria]

I think all classes should start naked and confused with an aggravated mercenary next to them. That would sort 'em out.

And an empty potion of confusion on the other side.

[Mondkalb]

At least with the new pricing system rangers are given some pretty good kit.
Other classes can't afford to buy even a sling ...

[Magnate]

At least with the new pricing system rangers are given some pretty good kit. Other classes can't afford to buy even a sling ...

... which is another argument in favour of giving all characters the same starting kit (or cash).

[rdanhenry]

Balanced does not mean "same"

Classes should only be given equivalent gear as a "balance" measure if they are assumed to be otherwise equal at level 1. In practice, it will almost always be easier to use an imbalance in the quality of starting gear to balance out difference in the (perceived) strength of the classes at first level.

[rdanhenry]

I've always found it odd that Rangers start with a longbow rather than a shortbow (which would leave them more to aspire to).

I think a Ranger should start armed only with a broken sword.

[Marble Dice]

Classes should only be given equivalent gear as a "balance" measure if they are assumed to be otherwise equal at level 1. In practice, it will almost always be easier to use an imbalance in the quality of starting gear to balance out difference in the (perceived) strength of the classes at first level.

Ironic, then, that rangers have one of the best starting kits! The mages and rogues seem to get the short end of the stick. Warriors get expensive equipment and a !Berserk, paladins get decent equipment and a ?PFE, priests get some !CSW. Rangers get a good bow, but mages and rogues don't get anything unique. Maybe mages could start with a couple ?Phase and rogues a couple ?DTreasure or something?

Of course, if everyone started with the same kit, you wouldn't need to pawn your weapon to buy a lighter one.

I think a Ranger should start armed only with a broken sword.

lol, I can see it now.

argorrn221
posts: 1

how do i fix swod
i am level 22 and cnt' even find bree

[Atarlost]

I suspect the disparity in starting equipment is a lot of what makes some classes better right now. If half your mages get killed by BSVs in town you're not going to think highly of the class.

Consider if everyone started with the first book of each magic type, a quarterstaff, a sling, some pebbles, a shovel, and the universal food and torches. Everyone would sell one book to buy gear. The warrior would sell both, giving him an equipment advantage to make up for his lack of magic, which kind of hurts until detection rods start appearing. Anyone can take that kit into the dungeon and kill stuff.

Or you can just add to every class except ranger a ring of charisma inscribed {balance kludge} with an appropriate pval set at charachter creation.

[Donald Jonker]

Is balance necessarily something to be striven (is that the right past participle?) for? It's all well and good (give rangers a shortbow), but it's so ephemeral, I don't think we should lose any sleep over it. After all, difference unites us, yes?

Mages are an entire different issue. Trying to balance them by giving them good starting equipment is like (to borrow a phrase from the eloquent Gov. Palin) putting lipstick on a pig... unless said gear includes a Ring of Extra SP and a Hat of Decent Attack Spells.

The real goal should be giving players a set of equipment that they don't immediately cash in for something different, so you can head immediately for the stairs. Nothing I hate more than starting off a game with a long bout of shopping.

There was an occasionally insightful thread on this on rgra awhile back in case anyone missed it.

[Monkey Face]

I think the reason people see a disparity in starting equipment is that they compare to older versions when everyone got different equipment. I went from 3.0.6 to 3.1.0, so I'm not sure when it changed, but if you compare the two, mages get exactly what they used to except 100 more gp (and mages have always been the hardest to play at a low level, so they just got comparetively harder). Everyone else now gets an extra WoR, so that's a plus for people not playing ironman. Priests got the biggest benefit by swapping a healing potion for 2 CCW. Since (at least for me) the healing tended to be used before Orb of Draining was obtained and was used while fighting a novice priest or one of Maggot's dogs, a CCW was just as good, so a second one was even better.