How many turns do you "lose" when recalling back to town?

[Rizwan]

Also, why do we get XP for casting spells? I mean... why would you go up a level just casting a spell? Would a warrior get xp for merely swinging his new sword around in the air? No, he gets xp for using his skills to achieve a resulting dead monster.

Well a reason could be you have no chance of failing when you swing a sword in the air but casting a spell can result in that spell not being performed so you might learn something ie get xp when successfully casting a spell for the first time and nothing for swinging your sword in the air

[pav]

If it wasn't for flavor, you could replace the town entirely with a series of menus and remove the issue entirely... and the tedium of walking between shops.

What? And sack all those hard working battle scared mercenaries? (Or scarred? Never can tell for sure.)

[Donald Jonker]

If it wasn't for flavor, you could replace the town entirely with a series of menus and remove the issue entirely... and the tedium of walking between shops.

That's news to me that you can keep stacking bless or potions etc to get thousands of turns of duration. That seems silly to me. Justified because warriors have inventory problems? Really? Why not give warriors an extra inventory slot instead of having bizarre game mechanics?

I have to agree here. Maybe not with giving warriors an extra slot, but spamming ?bless, !rCold, &c seems sloppy - waiting for a more elegant replacement. Replacing the walking about town with pure menus would be a travesty to flavor, but I could see a diablo-esque message "Not in town"; "I can't do that here," popping up whenever you want to spam one of those spells. If warriors are unable to cut it in the dungeon as a result, then other solutions like class bonuses should be considered.

Also, why do we get XP for casting spells? I mean... why would you go up a level just casting a spell? Would a warrior get xp for merely swinging his new sword around in the air? No, he gets xp for using his skills to achieve a resulting dead monster.

The only answer I can think of here is to make an early mage's life a little easier. Not justification enough, I suppose.

Also: All in all, Pete's list of reasons for time in town doesn't seem all that compelling to me. Why shouldn't HP/SP just be fully restored when you recall? (Although I have had those fun moments where you have a photo-finish to the temple when low on HP and poisoned, which are quite invigorating.) Should we have townies not regenerate when you dip into the dungeon for one turn to eliminate borgish scum-abuses (although that would be too bad for the borg)?

Zaimoni's screenshot practice with the shops seems agonizing and shouldn't be necessary for low turncounts.

Then again, I suppose I should take my own advice from another thread and say that in order to achieve results, the player, not the game, is what must change. But it seems there's a lot of built-in inefficiency here.

[PaulBlay]

What? And sack all those hard working battle scared mercenaries? (Or scarred? Never can tell for sure.)

I suppose you often play rouge's as well.

[Larvitz]

Hmmm... well stacking the effects of potions kind of makes sense in a way, because the more of anything you ingest, the more effect it's going to have...

such as ingesting an entire box of cough & cold medicine. I guarantee it's not going to be the same as only taking half.

[tigen]

Well a reason could be you have no chance of failing when you swing a sword in the air but casting a spell can result in that spell not being performed so you might learn something ie get xp when successfully casting a spell for the first time and nothing for swinging your sword in the air

Ah but then why would you not also get xp the second time, and the third time? A steadily decreasing amount until your fail rate approaches zero? The reality is that just casting the spell by itself doesn't accomplish anything and usually in these games you don't get experience unless you accomplish something. Should you get xp for successfully zapping a rod?

Maybe the town should have a new little training area with practice dummies, and you can attempt to attack or shoot at them, and the first time you hit them with a new weapon you get some xp

[tigen]

What? And sack all those hard working battle scared mercenaries? (Or scarred? Never can tell for sure.)

Well, those mean/scarred veterans/mercenaries and squinting rogues are probably the same novice warriors etc. you find in the dungeon. Maybe the idiots, lepers and wretches would be upset though. The aimless merchants were already unemployed. In any case it's not really clear why or how there is this walled off town functioning directly atop the Pits of Angband.

No, I'm a big fan of the town. Look how much fodder it provided for the comic? I think it could use even more flavor and funny events. Perhaps it could be compressed in size a little bit though. It currently has rather wide spaces and buildings.

[buzzkill]

How to avoid wasting 1000's of turns in town, a brief tutorial.
(That is, if you are really concerned about it for some reason. My guess is it would be far easier to shave 1000's of turns off of your time in he dungeon if you tweaked you play style a little. Then the time you waste in town wouldn't matter.)

1. Take notes, or screen dumps.
2. Plan your shopping.
3. Recall less.
4. Stop whining (because the Angband Town Mall is just never going to happen).

EDIT: Oops, forgot the smiley face.

[Nick]

5. Stop caring about turncount

[Pete Mack]

Aw, Nick--
We're all just trying to help you out with new Complaints for v40

[Donald Jonker]

How to avoid wasting 1000's of turns in town, a brief tutorial.
(That is, if you are really concerned about it for some reason. My guess is it would be far easier to shave 1000's of turns off of your time in he dungeon if you tweaked you play style a little. Then the time you waste in town wouldn't matter.)

1. Take notes, or screen dumps.
2. Plan your shopping.
3. Recall less.
4. Stop whining (because the Angband Town Mall is just never going to happen).

Nice tutorial. Zaimoni already delivered it. For some reason you seem to object to the generation of new ideas because the impetus behind them isn't particularly important to you. You're right - burning turns in town isn't very important. But it'd be nice to not get sass over "whining" each time a reform is proposed that looks toward an ideal behavior, however trivial a problem (or non-problem) it's meant to correct.

In my opinion town activity shouldn't contribute toward turncount because it doesn't constitute gameplay. Those parts that do constitute gameplay should, in my thinking, be minimized or removed, because it would smoothen out the playing experience and eliminate some questionable practices.

Feel free to take issue and debate, but please refrain from the sass - I'm not just whining for the hell of it. I do put a certain minimum of thought into my posts. I know your moniker is buzzkill, but there's no need for it all the time.

[Nick]

Aw, Nick--
We're all just trying to help you out with new Complaints for v40

The Complainer says "Turncount shmurncount"

[buzzkill]

Nice tutorial. Zaimoni already delivered it.

Correct, and it was all good advice that seemed to be overlooked. Instead, as usual, the conversation focused on, changing the game, rather than overcoming the obstacle through better play.

For some reason you seem to object to the generation of new ideas because the impetus behind them isn't particularly important to you. You're right - burning turns in town isn't very important.

Personally, turn count matters to me, probably my failing. I like Nick's advice. However, if TC is important to you I can't help but think that there are better situations in which to minimize it than worrying about the turns spent in town. Furthermore, this thread has deteriorated, once again, into changing the game, rather than game play, to achieve the desired result.

But it'd be nice to not get sass over "whining" each time a reform is proposed that looks toward an ideal behavior, however trivial a problem (or non-problem) it's meant to correct.

I think you made my point right here. Discussing reform of a trivial "non-problem" is practically the definition of whining.

In my opinion town activity shouldn't contribute toward turn count because it doesn't constitute game play.

I think you're in the minority here.

Those parts that do constitute game play should, in my thinking, be minimized or removed, because it would smoothen out the playing experience and eliminate some questionable practices.

Are you advocating the removal of the town?

Feel free to take issue and debate, but please refrain from the sass - I'm not just whining for the hell of it.

I will
Maybe, just for you
Aren't you?

I do put a certain minimum of thought into my posts. I know your moniker is buzzkill, but there's no need for it all the time.

As do I, most of the time, but sometimes I just don't feel like taking the time to write a essay. So, instead, you get a short, hopefully to the point, hopefully somewhat entertaining reply. Try not to take it personally (all the time).

Oh, and Donald, that's Buzzkill, with a capitol B. Show a little respect.

... and so it begins

[buzzkill]

The only answer I can think of here is to make an early mage's life a little easier. Not justification enough, I suppose.

Agreed.

Why shouldn't HP/SP just be fully restored when you recall

Because that's what healing potions are for (and you can always rest if you're not concerned with turn count).

Should we have townies not regenerate when you dip into the dungeon for one turn to eliminate borgish scum-abuses.

Yes. But even better would be more and more powerful townies kept arriving (after each slaughter) to stop the senseless murder of the innocent. Or, how about townie ghosts. "The ghost of the raving lunatic touches you. You feel less wise. You feel more dumber. Your memories fade. You are paralyzed."

Zaimoni's screenshot practice with the shops seems agonizing and shouldn't be necessary for low turncounts.

True. I like the town knowledge menu proposed by someone earlier in the thread.

Then again, I suppose I should take my own advice from another thread and say that in order to achieve results, the player, not the game, is what must change.

Who are you and what have you done with Donald. Hahahahahah!!!!

[Antoine]

Hmmm... well stacking the effects of potions kind of makes sense in a way, because the more of anything you ingest, the more effect it's going to have...

such as ingesting an entire box of cough & cold medicine. I guarantee it's not going to be the same as only taking half.

Dont take this the wrong way but you're starting to remind me of Earl from Redmeat - http://www.redmeat.com/redmeat/2009-01-27/index.html

A.