Rings of bodykeeping and soulkeeping

[Malak Darkhunter]

Hmm...I was using a ring of bodykeeping wich sustained my strength,dexterity,and constitution. Then I just found a ring of soulkeeping that sustains my strength, intelligence, wisdom. Why is strength sustained in both rings? Charisma is not sustained in either ring...Is this a bug?

[PowerDiver]

Hmm...I was using a ring of bodykeeping wich sustained my strength,dexterity,and constitution. Then I just found a ring of soulkeeping that sustains my strength, intelligence, wisdom. Why is strength sustained in both rings? Charisma is not sustained in either ring...Is this a bug?

Charisma is a useless stat that should not exist, and certainly is not worth the bother of a sustain. Even mages and priests need sustain strength so they can carry their stacks of spellbooks.

[Antoine]

Charisma is a useless stat that should not exist, and certainly is not worth the bother of a sustain. Even mages and priests need sustain strength so they can carry their stacks of spellbooks.

Charisma should become a secondary stat and stealth should become a primary stat

end(stuckrecord)

A.

[Malak Darkhunter]

Of course charisma has a use, you want to be able to buy items for a new character don't you? Charisma affects the store prices. But I did not start this thread to talk about the usefulness of charisma, if your going to make rings of stat sustains, at least do all six, not leave one out just because you don't like that particular stat. It's the proper thing to do, you might be surprised some people might want their charisma to be sustained, as it should be if you go through the pain of equipping both rings.

[takkaria]

Of course charisma has a use, you want to be able to buy items for a new character don't you? Charisma affects the store prices. But I did not start this thread to talk about the usefulness of charisma, if your going to make rings of stat sustains, at least do all six, not leave one out just because you don't like that particular stat. It's the proper thing to do, you might be surprised some people might want their charisma to be sustained, as it should be if you go through the pain of equipping both rings.

I didn't leave charisma because I don't like it; I left it out because int/wis/str is a more useful combination than int/wis/chr. If you want to sustain charisma, go find a ring of sustain charisma.

PS. Charisma may not be in V for much longer...

[Antoine]

Charisma may not be in V for much longer...

What is your plan?

A.

[takkaria]

What is your plan?

A.

Not much of one yet, except that I expect 3.1.2 to stop Charisma having an effect on store prices, and then finally the price of items will be that specificed in the object.txt file. After that (probably in 3.2.x, since it's compat-breaking), either I find new uses for it, or remove it, and go with five stats, or I find something else to shoehorn into the stat system that can work on the same scale.

[dzhang]

Just a completely random thought that will make everyone hate me, since the 6-stats system is mostly imported from Dungeons and Dragons, and in D&D the Sorceror uses CHA as arcane magic stat, while INT determines things like Skill points gained per level, how about:

INT: magic devices and XP bonus (maybe scaled by (INT+10)/20, so that at 18/220 INT you get 250% XP?)
WIS: same as before (priest spells and saving throws)
CHA: arcane spells and store prices

[Pete Mack]

CHA already has an effect on spells with saving throws. It's just not a big effect, and most of the spells aren't very useful.

[Antoine]

Not much of one yet, except that I expect 3.1.2 to stop Charisma having an effect on store prices, and then finally the price of items will be that specificed in the object.txt file. After that (probably in 3.2.x, since it's compat-breaking), either I find new uses for it, or remove it, and go with five stats, or I find something else to shoehorn into the stat system that can work on the same scale.

Sounds good.

Having done it, I can say that very little needs to be changed to put Stealth into the stat system. For instance, you don't need to change magic items and artifacts - there are already plenty that give Stealth bonuses which are on the right scale.

I don't think you even need to break savefile compatibility.

A.

[Daniel Fishman]

Would you then have Potions of Stealth?

[Malak Darkhunter]

Is there still going to be a way to describe your characters physical appereance? Because that is what charisma does, as well as your personality, how many people like you, better prices etc.

[takkaria]

Is there still going to be a way to describe your characters physical appereance? Because that is what charisma does, as well as your personality, how many people like you, better prices etc.

Well, there's the character history bit. I'm not sure a number on a weird scale does anything to describe physical appearances...

[Malak Darkhunter]

Well you take a half-troll, their ugly, their charisma is usually very low, then you take a Duandan, or a high-elf, their charisma is usually high, their noble and regal of appeareance, have physical beauty. That's the D@D concept of charisma, and where the idea of charisma in angband came from. Remember I've been playing these games since moria was a buggy version.

[takkaria]

Well you take a half-troll, their ugly, their charisma is usually very low, then you take a Duandan, or a high-elf, their charisma is usually high, their noble and regal of appeareance, have physical beauty. That's the D@D concept of charisma, and where the idea of charisma in angband came from. Remember I've been playing these games since moria was a buggy version.

Charisma in D&D was more than about physical appearance; it includes force of personality, persuasiveness, and ability to lead too. In Angband or Moria, all it has ever been used for was ability to haggle down prices. If you used it in some way to role-play your characters appearance above and beyond the race you chose and the character history you got given, then I'm sorry that it's being removed, but I'm pretty sure you're in a tiny minority.