Rogues in the current version

[Sky]

because of the existence of this thread i decided to play a Rogue (4.1.3) after a looong time, uh, 2021 http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10470
and i have come to realize that Rogues suck.

Yeah ok you get your 5 blows and TO which will *eventually* get to a reasonable fail rate, idk around CL40, but until then they are but glorified warriors and frankly, the endgame is easier with a warrior, the midgame is easier with a warrior, and the early game is easier with a warrior.
You would THINK that midgame is easier with a Rogue, but the fact is that both Warrior and Rogue will be relying on a Wand of TO 99% of the time, because hell no you are not relying on your 50% fail rate spell with 50SP and maybe +2 Spd.
I guess Rogues just really get Tenser's and, the fact that you can keybind TO is better than having to manually activate rods of TO a thousand times.

Not saying that warriors are any better, specially when you have to beg for rShards to save your !Speed from being destroyed, but Rogues do not hold a candle to Rangers, Mages, Paladins, or even Priests "1 button does everything" Orb.
I admit that Priest endgame is hard, because they lack any primary means of defeating Morgoth, however Rune + a vaguely decent melee damage and a dozen !Mana are generally enough to win a long and stressful endgame.

Mages MBan spam which practically guarantees you your pick of whatever Dragon armor artifact you want.
Rangers obscene ranged damage with a Lothlorien x5.
Also note that Rangers can absolutely use Rings of Escaping just as well as Mages can, and +8 Spd and MM + a plain old Longbow are absolutely fine to carry you to DL40 and stat gain.
Paladins with the constant Heal spam and preeeetty much the same damage output of a Warrior.
Priests and, well, Orb-anything. Undead? Orb. Dragons? Orb. Molds? Orb. Yes just Orb Orb Orb. F1 for Orb, F2 for TO.

Yes, i have a keybind for MBan.

[Sky]

oh btw i won with that rogue.
Maybe it was the fact that i found some boots of speed on DL2.
Or a sling of Buckland idk, DL6?

  [Angband 4.1.3 Character Dump]

 Name   ROGUE        Age             13          Self  RB  CB  EB   Best
 Race   Half-Orc     Height        5'4"   STR! 18/100  +2  +0  +8 18/200
 Class  Rogue        Weight    9st 10lb   INT! 18/100  -1  +1  +8 18/180
 Title  ***WINNER*** Turns used:          WIS! 18/100  +0  -3  +6 18/130
 HP     1027/1027    Game       1011198   DEX! 18/100  +0  +3 +12 18/***
 SP     355/355      Standard    207758   CON! 18/100  +1  -1 +10 18/200
                     Resting      87683

 Level                 50    Armor     [79,+206]    Saving Throw     85%
 Cur Exp          7623465                           Stealth       Heroic
 Max Exp          7623465    Melee       3d8,+46    Disarm - phys.  100%
 Adv Exp         ********    To-hit       90,+76    Disarm - magic  100%
                             Blows      7.0/turn    Magic Devices     87
 Gold            11193882                           Searching        97%
 Burden          218.0 lb    Shoot to-dam    +14    Infravision    50 ft
 Overweight       38.1 lb    To-hit       70,+68    Speed      19 (2.9x)
 Max Depth   5000' (L100)    Shots        1/turn

 Your mother was an Orc, but it is unacknowledged. You are the adopted
 child of a Serf.  You are the black sheep of the family.  You have
 green eyes, straight red hair, and an average complexion.


rAcid:......+.+...! Nexus:.............
rElec:+*....+.+...! Nethr:.....+.......
rFire:.+...++.+...! Chaos:......+......
rCold:...+.++.+...! Disen:......+......
rPois:......+.....! pFear:+..+....+....
rLite:......+...... pBlnd:.........+...
rDark:...++.+.....+ pConf:......+...+..
Sound:...+..+...... pStun:.............
Shard:......+...... HLife:...+.........

Regen:+....+....... Stea.:...+...+.....
  ESP:.......+..... Sear.:.............
Invis:++.......+... Infra:...+........+
FrAct:...+......+.. Tunn.:.............
Feath:...+......... Speed:..+........+.
S.Dig:........+.... Blows:...++........
ImpHP:............. Shots:.............
 Fear:............. Might:.+...........
Aggrv:............. Light:...+......+..


  [Last Messages]

> You drop the Mighty Hammer 'Grond' (9d9) (+5,+25) [+10] ().
> You sold the Lance 'Belwe' (2d8) (+13,+14) [+3] <+3, +2> (r) for 15000 gold.
> The scruffy little dog wakes up.
> You sold the Rapier of Aerdolon (3d6) (+9,+7) [+5] <+4> (q) for 25000 gold.
> The shopkeeper laughs loudly.
> You sold the Pair of Steel Shod Boots 'Lastir' [7,+13] <+2, +3, +6> (p) for 27333 gold.
> There is a wall in the way!
> "To attack a monster in a wall with your weapon, use the 'T'unnel command."
> You bought 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] for 50 gold.
> You have 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners] (a).
> You bought 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] for 200 gold.
> You have 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks] (b).
> You bought 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] for 800 gold.
> You have 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions] (c).
> Successfully created a spoiler file.

Killed by Ripe Old Age.

  [Character Equipment]

a) the Lochaber Axe of Pangluth (3d8) (+13,+30) [+25] <+3>
     Dropped by Uldor the Accursed at 4850 feet (level 97)
     
     +3 constitution.
     Slays undead (powerfully), dragons (powerfully), demons
     (powerfully), giants, trolls, orcs, animals, evil creatures.
     Provides resistance to lightning.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Sustains constitution.
     Speeds regeneration.  Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
     
     
     When activated, it restores your intelligence.
     Takes 188 to 208 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 96.3%
     
     Combat info:
     7.0 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 933.8 vs. undead, 933.8 vs. dragons, 933.8
     vs. demons, 707 vs. giants, 707 vs. trolls, 707 vs. orcs, 593.6
     vs. animals, 593.6 vs. evil creatures, and 480.2 vs. others.
     
b) the Short Bow of Arnossear (x4) (+5,+14) <+3, +5, +2>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4850 feet (level 97)
     
     +3 strength.
     +5 dexterity.
     +2 shooting power.
     Branded with fire.
     Provides immunity to lightning.
     Provides resistance to fire.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Sustains strength.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
c) a Ring of Speed <+11>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4750 feet (level 95)
     
     +11 speed.
     
d) the Band of Arthar [+22] <+3, +5, +2, +1>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4750 feet (level 95)
     
     +3 intelligence.
     +3 wisdom.
     +5 stealth.
     +2 infravision.
     +1 attack speed.
     +1 light.
     Provides resistance to cold, dark, sound.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     Feather Falling.  Prevents paralysis.  Sustains your life force.  
     
     When activated, it attempts to magically enhance a piece of
     armour.
     Takes 284 to 348 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 95.9%
     
e) the Pendant of Elosse <+1>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1550 feet (level 31)
     
     +1 attack speed.
     Provides resistance to dark.
     
f) the Wooden Torch of Luvalanin
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1050 feet (level 21)
     
     Provides resistance to fire, cold, nether.
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     Speeds regeneration.  
     Radius 1 light.
     
g) Power Dragon Scale Mail (-3) [60,+22]
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4750 feet (level 95)
     
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, poison, light,
     dark, sound, shards, chaos, disenchantment.
     Provides protection from confusion.
     
h) a Fur Cloak of the Magi [3,+18] <+2, +3>
     Conjured forth by magic at 4850 feet (level 97)
     
     +2 intelligence.
     +3 stealth.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Sustains intelligence.
     Grants telepathy.  
     
i) the Large Metal Shield of Dirya [12,+24] <+3, +4>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4750 feet (level 95)
     
     +3 wisdom.
     +4 dexterity.
     +3 constitution.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold.
     Provides protection from fear.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Slows your metabolism.  
     
j) the Hard Leather Cap of Olinethot [2,+10] <+3, +4>
     Dropped by Kavlax the Many-Headed at 2150 feet (level 43)
     
     +3 intelligence.
     +3 dexterity.
     +4 constitution.
     Provides protection from blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Grants the ability to see invisible things.  
     
k) the Set of Leather Gloves 'Helevrim' [1,+21] <+5, +1>
     Dropped by Mîm, Betrayer of Turin at 1650 feet (level 33)
     
     +5 strength.
     +1 light.
     Provides protection from confusion.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
l) a Pair of Leather Sandals of Speed [1,+9] <+10>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4750 feet (level 95)
     
     +10 speed.
     




  [Character Inventory]

a) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magic for Beginners]
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Conjurings and Tricks]
c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Incantations and Illusions]
d) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Sorcery and Evocations]
e) a Book of Magic Spells [Resistances of Scarabtarices]
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
f) a Book of Magic Spells [Mordenkainen's Escapes]
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
g) a Book of Magic Spells [Tenser's Transformations]
     Cannot be harmed by fire.
     
h) 6 Mushrooms of Vigor
i) 10 Potions of Healing
j) 17 Potions of *Healing*
     It can be thrown at creatures with damaging effect.
     
k) 28 Potions of Restore Mana
l) 19 Potions of Restore Life Levels
m) 5 Potions of Enlightenment
n) 2 Scrolls of Banishment
o) 3 Scrolls of Mass Banishment
p) a Scroll of Rune of Protection
q) 7 Rods of Healing (2 charging)
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     
r) the Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth [0,+0] <+50, +1>
     Dropped by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness at 5000 feet (level 100)
     
     +50 strength.
     +50 intelligence.
     +50 wisdom.
     +50 dexterity.
     +50 constitution.
     +50 infravision.
     +1 light.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold, poison, light,
     dark, nexus, nether.
     Provides protection from fear, confusion.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Grants telepathy.  Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
     Can't be removed.  
     




  [Character Quiver]

0) 7 Seeker Arrows of Slay Undead (4d4) (+12,+17)
     Slays undead.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 310 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, 310
     vs. undead, and 177.1 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
1) 6 Seeker Arrows of Wounding (4d4) (+22,+17)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 310 vs. creatures not resistant to fire, and
     177.1 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
2) a Seeker Arrow of Wounding (4d4) (+23,+27)
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 385.6 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     and 220.3 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
3) 33 Seeker Arrows of Slay Evil (4d4) (+17,+14)
     Slays evil creatures.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 287.3 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     246.2 vs. evil creatures, and 164.2 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
4) 27 Seeker Arrows of Holy Might (4d4) (+24,+21)
     Slays undead, demons, evil creatures.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 343.3 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     343.3 vs. undead, 343.3 vs. demons, 294.3 vs. evil creatures, and
     196.2 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     
5) 23 Mithril Arrows of Holy Might (3d4) (+20,+18)
     Slays undead, demons, evil creatures.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
     Combat info:
     Hits targets up to 140 feet away.
     Average damage/round: 298.6 vs. creatures not resistant to fire,
     298.6 vs. undead, 298.6 vs. demons, 256 vs. evil creatures, and
     170.6 vs. others.
     35% chance of breaking upon contact.
     


  [Home Inventory]

a) 5 Rods of Magic Mapping
b) the Band of Nienno (+7,+6) <+3, +4, +2>
     Dropped by Sauron, the Sorcerer at 4950 feet (level 99)
     
     +3 strength.
     +4 dexterity.
     +2 constitution.
     +4 stealth.
     +3 speed.
     Provides resistance to acid, fire, cold, nether, chaos.
     Provides protection from blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by lightning.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
     When activated, it teleports you one level up or down.
     Takes 356 to 478 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 90.4%
     
c) the Amulet of Hyamlados <+3, +4>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 2300 feet (level 46)
     
     +3 wisdom.
     +4 dexterity.
     Provides resistance to fire, cold, dark, shards.
     Sustains intelligence.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
     When activated, it restores your intelligence.
     Takes 188 to 208 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 95.4%
     
d) the Amulet of Varathol <+6, +3>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 1600 feet (level 32)
     
     +6 dexterity.
     +3 tunneling.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning.
     Slows your metabolism.  Feather Falling.  Prevents paralysis.  
     
     When activated, it attempts to magically slow a single monster.
     Takes 72 to 78 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 93.9%
     
e) the Elfstone of Celuinwe <+4, +2>
     Dropped by Khîm, Son of Mîm at 1600 feet (level 32)
     
     +4 intelligence.
     +4 wisdom.
     +2 stealth.
     Provides resistance to disenchantment.
     Provides protection from blindness.
     Sustains dexterity, constitution.
     
     When activated, it grants temporary resistance to cold for 1d10+10
     turns.
     Takes 95 to 104 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 94.4%
     
f) the Jewel of Linon <+4, +1>
     Dropped by Brodda, the Easterling at 1600 feet (level 32)
     
     +4 strength.
     +1 dexterity.
     Provides immunity to cold.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, nether.
     
     When activated, it grants temporary resistance to poison for
     1d10+10 turns.
     Takes 95 to 104 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 83.6%
     
g) the Jewel 'Eargot' <+1>
     Dropped by Tom the Stone Troll at 2000 feet (level 40)
     
     +1 dexterity.
     +1 light.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, dark, chaos.
     Provides protection from confusion.
     Sustains strength.
     Speeds regeneration.  
     
     When activated, it maps the area around you.
     Takes 237 to 290 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 88.6%
     
h) the Fur Cloak of Osgin [3,+18] <+1>
     Taken from a chest found at 2100 feet (level 42)
     
     +1 light.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, dark, disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Slows your metabolism.  
     
i) the Wicker Shield of Beluinya [2,+33] <+2, +1>
     Conjured forth by magic at 4850 feet (level 97)
     
     +2 strength.
     +1 light.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, cold.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Sustains strength.
     Speeds regeneration.  Sustains your life force.  
     
     When activated, it fires a mana bolt with damage 12d8.
     Takes 165 to 182 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 94.4%
     
j) the Mithril Shield of Talacir [16,+17] <+1>
     Dropped by Eöl, the Dark Elf at 4850 feet (level 97)
     
     +1 light.
     Provides immunity to fire.
     Provides resistance to acid, lightning, cold, disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Speeds regeneration.  Prevents paralysis.  
     
k) the Metal Cap of Criach [3,+14] <+5>
     Dropped by Akhorahil the Blind at 2250 feet (level 45)
     
     +5 strength.
     It causes your melee attacks to slay undead.
     Provides resistance to cold, dark.
     Provides protection from blindness.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Feather Falling.  
     
     When activated, it creates a lightning bolt (that always beams)
     with damage 6d6.
     Takes 118 to 130 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 94.4%
     
l) the Iron Helm of Ithri [7,+21] <+4, +1>
     Dropped by Lungorthin, the Balrog of White Fire at 4850 feet
     (level 97)
     
     +4 strength.
     +1 intelligence.
     Provides resistance to acid, sound.
     Cannot be harmed by acid.
     Grants telepathy.  Prevents paralysis.  
     
m) the Set of Alchemist's Gloves of Eithon (+9,+8) [0,+20] <+4, +1>
     Dropped by Itangast the Fire Drake at 2250 feet (level 45)
     
     +4 intelligence.
     +1 tunneling.
     Provides resistance to fire, light, disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
n) the Set of Alchemist's Gloves of Estardorn (+2,+5) [0,+23]
     Dropped by Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings at 1550 feet (level
     31)
     
     Provides resistance to disenchantment.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Slows your metabolism.  Prevents paralysis.  
     
o) the Pair of Ethereal Slippers 'Nirch' [0,+7] <+8>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4900 feet (level 98)
     
     +8 speed.
     Provides immunity to acid.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
p) a Mace of Disruption of *Slay Evil* (5d8) (+19,+16) <+1>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4900 feet (level 98)
     
     +1 wisdom.
     Slays undead, evil creatures.
     Provides resistance to acid.
     Blessed by the gods.  
     
     Combat info:
     7.0 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 870.8 vs. undead, 667.1 vs. evil creatures,
     and 464.1 vs. others.
     
q) the Mighty Hammer 'Grond' (9d9) (+5,+25) [+10]
     Dropped by Morgoth, Lord of Darkness at 5000 feet (level 100)
     
     Slays undead (powerfully), dragons (powerfully), demons
     (powerfully), trolls, orcs, animals, evil creatures.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Grants telepathy.  Grants the ability to see invisible things. 
     Sometimes creates earthquakes on impact.  Aggravates creatures
     nearby.  
     
     Combat info:
     6.3 blows/round.
     Average damage/round: 2759.1 vs. undead, 2759.1 vs. dragons,
     2759.1 vs. demons, 1806.2 vs. trolls, 1806.2 vs. orcs, 1330.1 vs.
     animals, 1330.1 vs. evil creatures, and 853.3 vs. others.
     
r) a Sling of Buckland (x3) (+17,+26) <+4, +2, +1>
     Found lying on the floor in a vault at 4900 feet (level 98)
     
     +4 dexterity.
     +2 shooting speed.
     +1 shooting power.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     
s) the Short Bow 'Cirim' (x3) (+11,+25) <+3, +1>
     Dropped by Gorlim, Betrayer of Barahir at 4900 feet (level 98)
     
     +3 dexterity.
     +3 speed.
     +1 shooting power.
     +1 light.
     Branded with fire.
     Provides resistance to lightning, fire, nexus.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     
     When activated, it tries to recharge a wand or staff, destroying
     the wand or staff on failure.
     Takes 261 to 319 turns to recharge at your current speed.
     Your chance of success is 94.4%
     
t) a Long Bow of Lothl&#195;&#179;rien (x5) (+23,+26) <+3, +2>
     Taken from a chest found at 4750 feet (level 95)
     
     +3 dexterity.
     +2 shooting power.
     Provides protection from confusion.
     Cannot be harmed by acid, fire.
     Prevents paralysis.  
     


[Player history]
      Turn   Depth  Note
         0      0'  Began the quest to destroy Morgoth.
       460     50'  Reached level 2
      1384     50'  Reached level 3
      3410     50'  Reached level 4
      4009    100'  -- Note: sandals of speed +8 !!!
      4320    150'  Killed Grip, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      4461    150'  Reached level 5
      5106    150'  Reached level 6
      5835    200'  Reached level 7
      7114    250'  Reached level 8
      7347    300'  Killed Fang, Farmer Maggot's Dog
      8067    350'  Reached level 9
      8696    450'  Reached level 10
      9564    600'  Reached level 11
     10256    650'  Reached level 12
     11601    750'  Reached level 13
     12042    800'  Reached level 14
     13445    900'  Reached level 15
     14643    900'  Reached level 16
     16974    950'  Reached level 17
     17371    950'  Killed Wormtongue, Agent of Saruman
     18927   1000'  Reached level 18
     19588   1050'  Killed Orfax, Son of Boldor
     19688   1050'  Killed Lagduf, the Snaga
     19699   1050'  Killed Boldor, King of the Yeeks
     19847   1050'  Reached level 19
     20397   1050'  Reached level 20
     20968   1050'  Found the Wooden Torch of Luvalanin
     21000   1050'  Killed Ulfast, Son of Ulfang
     23157   1100'  Reached level 21
     24864   1200'  Reached level 22
     26077   1500'  Reached level 21
     26077   1500'  Reached level 22
     27297   1500'  Reached level 23
     29051   1500'  Reached level 24
     31638   1500'  Reached level 25
     31900   1500'  Killed Shagrat, the Orc Captain
     35756   1600'  Reached level 26
     39553   1550'  Killed Sangahyando of Umbar
     39583   1550'  Killed Angamait&#195;&#171; of Umbar
     40572   1600'  Reached level 27
     41747   1600'  Killed Kh&#195;&#174;m, Son of M&#195;&#174;m
     41751   1600'  Found the Elfstone of Celuinwe
     41959   1600'  Found the Amulet of Varathol
     43597   1550'  Reached level 28
     44080   1600'  Killed Brodda, the Easterling
     44084   1600'  Found the Jewel of Linon
     46453   1550'  Killed N&#195;&#161;r, the Dwarf
     49280   1550'  Killed Ugl&#195;&#186;k, the Uruk
     49435   1550'  Killed Lugdush, the Uruk
     49514   1550'  Killed Vargo, Tyrant of Fire
     49945   1550'  Killed Gorbag, the Orc Captain
     49997   1550'  Reached level 29
     49998   1550'  Killed Bullroarer the Hobbit
     50548   1550'  Found the Pendant of Elosse
     53039   1650'  Killed M&#195;&#174;m, Betrayer of Turin
     53044   1650'  Found the Set of Leather Gloves 'Helevrim'
     53097   1650'  Killed Ibun, Son of M&#195;&#174;m
     63395   1650'  Killed Sm&#195;&#169;agol
     63409   1650'  Reached level 30
     71380   1550'  Killed Bolg, Son of Azog
     76629   1550'  Killed Draebor, the Imp
     80570   1550'  Reached level 31
     80655   1550'  Killed Lorgan, Chief of the Easterlings
     80661   1550'  Found the Set of Alchemist's Gloves of Estardorn
     81458   1550'  Killed Ufthak of Cirith Ungol
     83645   1950'  Killed Ulwarth, Son of Ulfang
     83936   2000'  Killed Grishn&#195;&#161;kh, the Hill Orc
     84660   2000'  Killed Bert the Stone Troll
     84680   2000'  Killed Tom the Stone Troll
     84694   2000'  Killed Bill the Stone Troll
     84696   2000'  Found the Jewel 'Eargot'
     86079   2000'  Killed The Queen Ant
     86569   2000'  Found the Awl-Pike of Corinieva (LOST)
     87155   2050'  Reached level 32
     88174   2000'  Found the Robe 'Arievri' (LOST)
     89016   2100'  Found the Set of Caestus of Eonurhuar (LOST)
     89808   2100'  Killed Ren the Unclean
     89808   2100'  Reached level 33
     89818   2100'  Found the Blade of Chaos of Vandor (LOST)
     90781   2100'  Killed Castamir the Usurper
     90999   2100'  Killed Uvatha the Horseman
     91909   2100'  Found the Fur Cloak of Osgin
     94110   2150'  Killed Kavlax the Many-Headed
     94115   2150'  Found the Hard Leather Cap of Olinethot
     94121   2150'  Found the Tulwar 'Erumenn' (LOST)
     95183   2100'  Reached level 34
     96028   2150'  Reached level 34
     96301   2150'  Killed Adunaphel the Quiet
    110745      0'  Killed Farmer Maggot
    111853   2100'  Reached level 35
    113953   2200'  Found the Set of Leather Gloves of Coros (LOST)
    114000   2200'  Found the Leather Scale Mail of Ekkas (LOST)
    114879   2200'  Killed Rogrog the Black Troll
    115855   2250'  Reached level 36
    116347   2250'  Killed Itangast the Fire Drake
    116360   2250'  Found the Set of Alchemist's Gloves of Eithon
    117110   2250'  Killed Beorn, the Shape-Changer
    118031   2250'  Reached level 37
    118744   2250'  Killed Akhorahil the Blind
    118744   2250'  Found the Metal Cap of Criach
    119555   2250'  Killed Golfimbul, the Hill Orc Chief
    120063   2250'  Found the Whip of Aramede (LOST)
    121586   2300'  Found the Amulet of Hyamlados
    123724   4700'  Reached level 38
    127886   4700'  Killed Qlzqqlzuup, the Emperor Quylthulg
    127897   4700'  Found the Bar Chain Mail 'Narangoth' (LOST)
    127949   4700'  Found the Halberd of Guluia (LOST)
    128445   4700'  Reached level 39
    129319   4750'  Found the Trident of Peleg (LOST)
    129351   4750'  Found the Hard Leather Armour of Andirin (LOST)
    129458   4750'  Found the Scythe 'Annandi' (LOST)
    129671   4750'  Found the Band of Arthar
    129674   4750'  Found the Mattock 'Lorith' (LOST)
    129771   4750'  Found the Large Metal Shield of Dirya
    132854   4750'  Reached level 40
    133012   4750'  Found the Spear 'Mothama' (LOST)
    133068   4750'  Found the Tulwar 'Gilgalana' (LOST)
    135448   4850'  Found the Band of Kemna (LOST)
    138475   4850'  Killed Saruman of Many Colours
    138490   4850'  Found the Pike of Gisil (LOST)
    141333   4900'  Killed Shelob, Spider of Darkness
    141333   4900'  Reached level 41
    142278   4850'  Killed E&#195;&#182;l, the Dark Elf
    142278   4850'  Found the Mithril Shield of Talacir
    143448   4900'  Reached level 42
    144469   4850'  Found the Wicker Shield of Beluinya
    145011   4850'  Found the Ring of Losgaeth (LOST)
    145454   4850'  Found the Set of Gauntlets of Cuaron (LOST)
    145871   4850'  Killed The Balrog of Moria
    149050   4900'  Killed Harowen the Black Hand
    149052   4900'  Found the Glaive of Barienth (LOST)
    149066   4900'  Found the Ring of Valien (LOST)
    149651   4900'  Killed Scatha the Worm
    149705   4900'  Reached level 43
    149933   4900'  Killed Smaug the Golden
    149933   4900'  Found the Main Gauche 'Nenyarth' (LOST)
    153255   4900'  Killed Atlas, the Titan
    153653   4900'  Reached level 44
    153887   4900'  Found the Pair of Ethereal Slippers of Methilmar (LOST)
    154750   4900'  Killed Ariel, Queen of Air
    155151   4900'  Found the Dagger of Thalad (LOST)
    155234   4900'  Found the Pike of Gondil (LOST)
    155461   4900'  Found the Tulwar of Nathad (LOST)
    156659   4850'  Found the Zweihander 'Dorth' (LOST)
    156660   4850'  Killed Feagwath, the Undead Sorcerer
    156664   4850'  Found the Shovel 'Halduin' (LOST)
    157439   4900'  Killed Ar-Pharaz&#195;´n the Golden
    157439   4900'  Found the Heavy Crossbow of Anarver (LOST)
    159008   4850'  Reached level 45
    159075   4850'  Found the Leather Shield of Thith (LOST)
    161164   4900'  Killed Medusa, the Gorgon
    161212   4900'  Found the Short Bow 'Ninas' (LOST)
    162136   4900'  Reached level 46
    162490   4900'  Killed Ulfang the Black
    162700   4900'  Found the Mace of Ciryarist (LOST)
    163832   4900'  Killed Tselakus, the Dreadlord
    163905   4900'  Found the Great Axe of Gondurin (LOST)
    164182   4900'  Killed Azog, King of the Uruk-Hai
    164350   4900'  Killed Ji Indur Dawndeath
    164353   4900'  Found the Chain Mail of Mastil (LOST)
    164405   4900'  Killed Dwar, Dog Lord of Waw
    164903   4900'  Killed Hoarmurath of Dir
    165247   4900'  Killed Kham&#195;&#187;l, the Black Easterling
    166250   4900'  Reached level 47
    166290   4900'  Killed Gorlim, Betrayer of Barahir
    166290   4900'  Found the Short Bow 'Cirim'
    166677   4900'  Killed Mughash the Kobold Lord
    167007   4850'  Killed Uldor the Accursed
    167008   4850'  Found the Lochaber Axe of Pangluth
    171454   4850'  Killed The Lernaean Hydra
    171488   4850'  Killed Waldern, King of Water
    171906   4850'  Found the Quarterstaff 'Emmog' (LOST)
    172464   4850'  Reached level 48
    172990   4850'  Killed Draugluin, Sire of All Werewolves
    173885   4850'  Found the Full Plate Armour 'Ancarad' (LOST)
    174479   4850'  Killed Fundin Bluecloak
    174649   4850'  Found the Lucerne Hammer of Aregost (LOST)
    175215   4900'  Found the Tulwar of Belegnost (LOST)
    175606   4850'  Found the Broad Sword of Tantir (LOST)
    176043   4850'  Found the Short Bow of Arnossear
    176477   4850'  Reached level 49
    176569   4850'  Killed Baphomet the Minotaur Lord
    176741   4850'  Killed The Witch-King of Angmar
    176745   4850'  Found the Robe of Monen (LOST)
    177361   4850'  Killed Gothmog, the High Captain of Balrogs
    177368   4850'  Killed Pazuzu, Lord of Air
    177434   4850'  Killed Lungorthin, the Balrog of White Fire
    177446   4850'  Found the Iron Helm of Ithri
    177805   4900'  Killed Glaurung, Father of the Dragons
    178190   4900'  Killed The Tarrasque
    180164   4900'  Reached level 50
    181055   4900'  Killed Maeglin, the Traitor of Gondolin
    181345   4900'  Found the Pair of Ethereal Slippers 'Nirch'
    181894   4950'  Killed Carcharoth, the Jaws of Thirst
    181894   4950'  Found the Zweihander of Thonwe (LOST)
    181910   4950'  Found the Scimitar of Gelin (LOST)
    182305   4950'  Killed Cantoras, the Skeletal Lord
    182340   4950'  Found the Ball-and-Chain of Ancar (LOST)
    182348   4950'  Found the Flail 'Rhunuirn' (LOST)
    182829   4950'  Killed Vecna, the Emperor Lich
    194538   4900'  Killed Polyphemus, the Blind Cyclops
    194603   4900'  Killed Kronos, Lord of the Titans
    195207   4950'  Killed Radagast the Brown
    195208   4950'  Found the Maul of Hyammil (LOST)
    195652   4900'  Killed Arien, Maia of the Sun
    206315   4950'  Killed Sauron, the Sorcerer
    206315   4950'  Found the Band of Nienno
    206423   4950'  Killed Ungoliant, the Unlight
    206951   5000'  Killed The Cat Lord
    207231   5000'  Killed Morgoth, Lord of Darkness
    207231   5000'  Found the Massive Iron Crown of Morgoth
    207271   5000'  Killed The Mouth of Sauron
    207275   5000'  Found the Lance 'Belwe'
    207276   5000'  Found the Mighty Hammer 'Grond'
    207337   5000'  Killed Ancalagon the Black
    207347   5000'  Killed The Phoenix
    207347   5000'  Found the Rapier of Aerdolon
    207351   5000'  Found the Pair of Steel Shod Boots 'Lastir'
    207394   5000'  Killed Quaker, Master of Earth

[malcontent]

because of the existence of this thread i decided to play a Rogue (4.1.3) after a looong time, uh, 2021 http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10470
and i have come to realize that Rogues suck.

Yeah ok you get your 5 blows and TO which will *eventually* get to a reasonable fail rate, idk around CL40, but until then they are but glorified warriors and frankly, the endgame is easier with a warrior, the midgame is easier with a warrior, and the early game is easier with a warrior.

At this point I really don't remember what 4.1.3 is like for rogues, but I can say that for me, in 4.2.4, my end game fights, primarily Morgoth, are very different for a warrior vs. rogue. I think this is primarily due to the recharging spell and my own personal preference to avoid melee with Morgoth if at all possible. I save all wands of annihilation for Morgoth, period. They stay in my house until they are needed. IF there are any wands of drain life left after defeating Sauron then those come along as well.

For me a rogue has several phases of a game - the early part where they are fragile and use detection and evasion. A great launcher can make a huge difference during this phase. Then, once they get stats elevated they can fight pretty darn well which speeds up the process of getting the things you really need to finish the game in the very brief third phase (Sauron/Morgoth), which are basically wands and speed (and HPs if you don't want to gamble).

The third phase can also be aided by a good launcher with good ammo, but the unresistible 250-300 damage that wands of annihilation can pump into Morgoth is very hard to beat.

[Thraalbee]

I find warrior stronger in most ways but I play with ironman settings and that turns things around. With no home or shops, even weak utility spells are welcome. So it seems to depend on playstyle and settings which is easier

[Sky]

I find warrior stronger

... well ... they do have shield bash now .. no such thing as a proc-stun in 4.1.3, they had strong melee before, they have even stronger melee now.

[Werbaer]

[...] and, the fact that you can keybind TO is better than having to manually activate rods of TO a thousand times.

Auto-inscribe your rods with @a0 and keybind a0 (or @z0 / z0 , depending on your keyset)

[Sky]

Auto-inscribe your rods with @a0 and keybind a0 (or @z0 / z0 , depending on your keyset)

you don't add "target nearest" (the ' key) to your keybinds?
I got it on all my binds.

so for example magic missile is paa'
(i think 4.2 uses m instead of p to cast)

[Pete Mack]

I use current target binding for attacks (for example @m15 for magic missile.) But I always want to specifically target TO, and not at the closest or current monster.

[Sky]

i am way too lazy for that, i prefer to move my character so that my "target nearest" bind works with whichever enemy i want.
I can play a whole game and really only need to manually target something, maybe 10 times.

[Bogatyr]

because of the existence of this thread i decided to play a Rogue (4.1.3) after a looong time, uh, 2021 http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=10470
and i have come to realize that Rogues suck.

Yeah ok you get your 5 blows and TO which will *eventually* get to a reasonable fail rate, idk around CL40, but until then they are but glorified warriors and frankly, the endgame is easier with a warrior, the midgame is easier with a warrior, and the early game is easier with a warrior.
You would THINK that midgame is easier with a Rogue, but the fact is that both Warrior and Rogue will be relying on a Wand of TO 99% of the time, because hell no you are not relying on your 50% fail rate spell with 50SP and maybe +2 Spd.
I guess Rogues just really get Tenser's and, the fact that you can keybind TO is better than having to manually activate rods of TO a thousand times.

Not saying that warriors are any better, specially when you have to beg for rShards to save your !Speed from being destroyed, but Rogues do not hold a candle to Rangers, Mages, Paladins, or even Priests "1 button does everything" Orb.
I admit that Priest endgame is hard, because they lack any primary means of defeating Morgoth, however Rune + a vaguely decent melee damage and a dozen !Mana are generally enough to win a long and stressful endgame.

Mages MBan spam which practically guarantees you your pick of whatever Dragon armor artifact you want.
Rangers obscene ranged damage with a Lothlorien x5.
Also note that Rangers can absolutely use Rings of Escaping just as well as Mages can, and +8 Spd and MM + a plain old Longbow are absolutely fine to carry you to DL40 and stat gain.
Paladins with the constant Heal spam and preeeetty much the same damage output of a Warrior.
Priests and, well, Orb-anything. Undead? Orb. Dragons? Orb. Molds? Orb. Yes just Orb Orb Orb. F1 for Orb, F2 for TO.

Yes, i have a keybind for MBan.

Just lost a HE Rogue on dlev 99 to Sauron, who sauntered into the vault I was emptying and hit me with a nether storm, and I didn't have my con swap in place. Randart game but VERY few con items, a few items but they're only con and no helpful resists. Didn't have rNether covered.

I found a sling of buckland early, found several during the game in fact, and relied on it for damage for the entire game. I prefer Legendary stealth if I can get it, and picking off monsters one by one. I really like rogue recharge, and made heavy use of it for utility/debuff wands. Recharge, and reveal monsters, with the occasional phase door were my major spell uses. Oh, detect objects of course. Made level scumming for gain stat potions quite nice. It helps to keep the wand inventory full. Tons of staves of speed found that way.

In the end I prefer mage. I just know how to play them. I find warriors boring/hard for their lack of detect and utilities. Rangers I can never get off the ground. I prefer rings of the mouse to rings of escape.