Which Weapon is Better?

[Kooltone]

I'm a level 26 dwarf blackguard with a melee to hit of 61. I have two slay evil weapons I'm trying to compare.

The first is a lucerne hammer (3d5) (+7, +6) that gives me 1.1 blows/round. Average damage is 40.8 vs evil creatures and 28.3 vs others.

The second is a long sword (2d5) (+13, +8) that gives me 1.0 blows/round. Average damage is 31.9 vs evil creatures and 24.3 vs others.

The lucerne hammer does more damage on a hit, but that long sword has a nice +13. Which do you think is better, and how do you normally compare similar weapons?

[mrfy]

The lucerne hammer does more damage on a hit, but that long sword has a nice +13. Which do you think is better, and how do you normally compare similar weapons?

I would choose the lucerne hammer. More damage now, and it can be enchanted further than the other weapon for even more damage.

[Estie]

As a rule of thumb, ignore the to hit value of a weapon. It is a constant that gets added to your class based skill value (which is a multiplicative of your level) before entering the calculation, so its effects are minuscule except for the very early game.

[Kooltone]

I would choose the lucerne hammer. More damage now, and it can be enchanted further than the other weapon for even more damage.

Oh, is there a max enchantment damage?

[fph]

Oh, is there a max enchantment damage?

Not really, but enchanting a weapon via scrolls becomes more and more difficult the more its bonus gets higher. A general rule of thumb is that after you get to ca. +10 the returns become too low.

[Cryomaniac]

Doesn't enchanting bonuses stop at +15? You can have an item get generated with larger bonuses, but you can't manually enchant past +15 at all.

[Estie]

Thats correct - +15 is the maximum enchantment. The rule "enchant to +10 then stop" is from the olden days when the shop was selling the scrolls. With the current version, you just read whatever you find.

Also, the chance of success gets lower the more powerful the item you try to enchant is. I often find myself enchanting some good endgame quality weapon with the priest spell and it can take a hundred or so attempts to get +15 (naturally, I make a macro).

[fph]

Thanks for the correction! Good to know this so I don't stick with "cargo-cult" practices from older versions.

[Sky]

to be clear, +acc is worth *a little*.
If you had, say, +50 to hit, then that would translate in a lot more damage. Just like having +50 AC results in lower damage (although it really depends on the level of the mob dishing out the damage).
But smaller values are rarely worth the change.

To put it in perspective, if you had a ring of damage +0,+8, and a ring of slaying +15,+6 the ring of damage will generally do more damage.
Also, the values on the item (i)nspect screen, *do* reflect your current To-Hit value, so if a weapon says "you would do X damage" that includes your To-Hit % that comes from the +acc bonus.

The ONLY time that i would consider +acc rings is when playing a ranger.

[Estie]

The one time I would consider +acc rings is when playing a blackguard who shoots.

[kineahora]

Thats correct - +15 is the maximum enchantment. The rule "enchant to +10 then stop" is from the olden days when the shop was selling the scrolls. With the current version, you just read whatever you find.

Also, the chance of success gets lower the more powerful the item you try to enchant is. I often find myself enchanting some good endgame quality weapon with the priest spell and it can take a hundred or so attempts to get +15 (naturally, I make a macro).

Nice I didn't know +15 was the asymptote.

I find the old "stop after +10" is no longer really operative. I now stop after +12; I often have enchant spells and it gets too boring to go for +13 but usually +12 isn't *that* hard to get. Oooooh a MACRO!!! Duh! And yes I just read *enchant* scrolls i find in the dungeon...

Immediate effect of reading the forum: I just enchanted Aglarang to (+14,+15). Talk about an endgame weapon--one of the best! On StandArts, what do people prefer to Aglarang? I'm thinking just Ringil, Aulë, and Deathwreaker?

[Estie]

I havent played with standards in a while, so I might be not up to date; theres Doomcaller, not great for farming due to aggravation but great for the 2 boss fights; for priests and paladins, glaive of pain should be wonderful, though a MoD +2 attacks would be better than either.

[kineahora]

I havent played with standards in a while, so I might be not up to date; theres Doomcaller, not great for farming due to aggravation but great for the 2 boss fights; for priests and paladins, glaive of pain should be wonderful, though a MoD +2 attacks would be better than either.

Yeah those are good.

I now have Aglarang, a BOC HA, an SOS Gondolin, and Thunderfist in hand. I think any of these will probably be good enough for the final 2. I tend to do Single combat to prevent the summonses. I like the whole idea of Single combat Morgoth with a Paladin, and this character has cesti of Fingolfin--so it feels like the right fate for the character to avenge Fingolfin... Im OK without Ringil I have Rings O speed +14 and +11.