Objects you never bother to pick up

[mrfy]

My 2 cents:

?*Destr* is the most important escape spell for Morgoth fight. You tele Morgoth, and then wipe out all the summons, and wait Morgy to return. IMHO.

I don't use destruction for a few reasons. I hate the look of the dungeon afterwards, and there are usually better ways of reacting to his summons. TO combined with Banishment and Mass Banishment are sufficient.

[Estie]

Lets see:

Scrolls of blessing I use early game, to help with throwing oil or shooting slings. Later on, I dont want to dedicate a slot so blessing and its upgrades get squelched. I buy some again for the end fights.

Door destruction gets squelched as found, but *destruction* is an essential tool with many uses: emergency escape, a way to eliminate half of a vaults inhabitants, a way to get rid of summons in the Morgoth fight, it gives the ability to get rid of some annoying ood monster that prevents you from looting a profitable level in peace.

Potion of berserk strength is the best buff and it is the last one to go if slots get really tight; I try to have some for hard fights if possible. Infravision gets squelched, the stat swaps see use though: I drink main stats and collect toughness for the time when main stats are maxed.

Wands: in that list, I hold onto digging for sure; it is an essential tool right up to the Morgoth fight. That said, only 1 slot gets devoted to digging and eventually it will be a ring.

Staves: detect evil is vital for warriors - its their only monster detection in the early game - and useless for everyone else. Earthquake gets squelched, but *destruction* is very useful, see the entry under scrolls.

I have come to devote a slot to a rod of disable traps. Chest loot is very worthwhile and youll lose most of it if you set off the traps, quite apart from the danger of summons. Rogues dont carry them, though - its a matter of pride.

Amulets: same; unless I am a wisdom caster, my first amulet is likely to be an artifact.

Rings: constitution I keep with casters; characters relying on melee farm without maxed con till they have better options than rings to get con from. Reckless attack is probably my most used early game ring, maybe along with mouse. It gives extra damage at no drawback - AC can be ignored.

[ewert]

I don't use destruction for a few reasons. I hate the look of the dungeon afterwards, and there are usually better ways of reacting to his summons. TO combined with Banishment and Mass Banishment are sufficient.

Fair enough, then again I often enjoy rebreaking LoS for next approach, but one can also argue that keeping the previous route and then tunnel a cheesy L-LoS abuse for Morgoths next approach is a good idea as well.

[ewert]

Reckless attack is probably my most used early game ring, maybe along with mouse. It gives extra damage at no drawback - AC can be ignored.

I think AC was changed some at some point, I see huge gains with high AC currently in melee. An out of depth big body armor piece cuts down on melee damage immensely versus early uniques.

Funnily, a very good Mouse (-4 to -6) can actually be more dmg if it gives you enough more attacks per round, while boosting your stealth as well.

[mrfy]

Fair enough, then again I often enjoy rebreaking LoS for next approach, but one can also argue that keeping the previous route and then tunnel a cheesy L-LoS abuse for Morgoths next approach is a good idea as well.

Ah, I mostly play mages and rangers so I need LOS on Morgoth in order to attack him with spells and good arrows from a distance. Just keep plenty of banishments to get rid of his summons.

[Egavactip]

I don't use destruction for a few reasons. I hate the look of the dungeon afterwards, and there are usually better ways of reacting to his summons. TO combined with Banishment and Mass Banishment are sufficient.

You don't use it because you don't like the look of the dungeon afterwards. I just want to make sure I have that right.

[mrfy]

You don't use it because you don't like the look of the dungeon afterwards. I just want to make sure I have that right.

Yes. It destructs the dungeon...I believe there are better ways to escape harm without such effects.

I don't ignore them, if they're around I'll use them as a last resort but I don't carry them in my inventory.

Staffs of *Destruction* do turn into good arrows with the Create Arrow verse.

[Hounded]

You don't use it because you don't like the look of the dungeon afterwards. I just want to make sure I have that right.

Absurd I know but he's not alone. I'll only reluctantly and in extremis use destruction or earthquake effects. They're aesthetically jarring... in the randomly generated dungeon... that I'll never see again... which I should leave anyway 'cause it's too dangerous...

[ewert]

Absurd I know but he's not alone. I'll only reluctantly and in extremis use destruction or earthquake effects. They're aesthetically jarring... in the randomly generated dungeon... that I'll never see again... which I should leave anyway 'cause it's too dangerous...

Yeah, I have that problem as well with earthquake and *destr staves or the spells ... and just monster in general ...

Oh look a vault. A greater chaos dragon? I have 200hp? I will just tp it out ...

You die.

I swear the biggest killer is the fixation error and not just letting it go, nuke them and flee, don't worry about collateral damage, just live to survive another day, but nooo..

[Estie]

I think AC was changed some at some point, I see huge gains with high AC currently in melee. An out of depth big body armor piece cuts down on melee damage immensely versus early uniques.

Funnily, a very good Mouse (-4 to -6) can actually be more dmg if it gives you enough more attacks per round, while boosting your stealth as well.

The problem with AC is that the biggest contributor, the body armor, is so heavy that I commonly would lose speed when wearing it. That is not acceptable as melee, even if meleeing is easier with AC despite the speed loss, as melee is the least relevant type of incoming damage.

So given that I refuse to wear a heavy piece of body armor (before I have acquired the str to do so without penalty or unless its something really exceptional like, say, elven bar chain mail with rpoison), my AC is never going to let me tank uniques. And if I have to play hit + phase anyway, I might as well do as much damage per round as possible at the cost of what remains of my paltry AC.

I squelch all "good" armor types as found. I wonder how many of you AC loving people have ever actually tried ignoring AC.

[ewert]

I squelch all "good" armor types as found. I wonder how many of you AC loving people have ever actually tried ignoring AC.

Having played since forever, in the past I have definitely mostly just ignored AC. As for the weight problem, I guess you carry much more other gear then, if I am playing a melee oriented class I don't have issues even early game.

And the difference is such that stacking the early finds such as prots/elemental rings until you find better stuff on top of basic good stuff plus a lucky body armor literally makes you take paltry damage from early uniques. On my melee chars after a slow or slow/speed combo, before Azog, most of them can just be facetanked and killed without using any healing in my current experience.

And I have lately played probably around a hundred or so early games in a the past couple months.

Sure if you play a ranged or caster, it is all plink and blink ignoring armor other than stuff that gives required resists or stats ...

[Estie]

Who isnt a ranger ? I always maintain a mundane ranged option regardless of class.
Now I am curious what from my wanted list you are not carrying when you can wear a heavy piece of armor and not get slowed down - I have trouble staying at 0 speed even naked.

Lets see: ~20 ?phase, ~20 ! cure wounds, 1-2 _teleportation as soon as I can afford them, _mapping come to mind. 2-3 slots worth of ammo also weigh in. Then at least 2 copies each of the early books. Other stuff can vary but shouldnt be as heavy as the listed items.

[ewert]

Any char pretty much will be a 16 base str, melee ones most often 17. Usually just 10 phase for melee guys, usually 15 !cures, 2-4 staves depending on char, 2-4 wands, 2 books etc. never more than 1 stack of ammo if it is a mainly melee guy, heck if you get lucky with a sling/ammo combo I am happy with low 20s.

Again, melee are just blackguard, warrior and paladin really. So it is never 3 separate books until later. I will definitely early on chuck on a 40+ ac body piece even if it drops me to 0.9 speed ...

Shrugs, high AC early characters can easily just facetank single line hordes, _CLW or cures if need be, slows for bigger meaner ones, et cetera ...

[wobbly]

The problem with AC is that the biggest contributor, the body armor, is so heavy that I commonly would lose speed when wearing it. That is not acceptable as melee, even if meleeing is easier with AC despite the speed loss, as melee is the least relevant type of incoming damage.

Sideways doesn't play vanilla much anymore but one thing I noticed watching him play is, he didn't seem to give a stuff whether he was encumbered or not. I altered how I played after seeing this and, its actually just a big relief not to care about -1 or -2 speed.